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William1101
# Posted: 3 Nov 2011 01:44
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I have used this product extensively in my house.
For some reason I just feel very uncomfortable with it, particulary when I'm resting/sleeping. The paint has reduced the EMF to 0.03 V/m, which is a considerable reduction. I have earthed the paint as instructed, and have even resorted to sleeping with the electricity switched off...
I wonder if even such a low measurement is significant because the EMF somehow rebounds off the paint? Or could wrong application of the paint cause this feeling of discomfort?

I have also posted this message on the Powerwatch forum.

Regards,

William

eric generic
# Posted: 3 Nov 2011 02:30
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Hi William,

We had a whole room painted with Yshield, and I can no longer spend more than a minute or two in there now without extreme discomfort. It's literally unusable. The reason given to us was incorrect application. This may well be true, I've no reason to doubt the integrity of the Yshield product. But I completely recognise the discomfort you talk about.

EG.

Anonymous
# Posted: 7 Nov 2011 13:58
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Hi guys,

my name is Volker from Yshield.
I can really keep it short and simple. The problem is not the HSF54 but the paint you used as top coat. In 99% of all cases we experienced this was the case.
So William, which paint did you use? Please give me some details and I will try to find out about the techn. data sheet.

Regards,
Volker

William1101
# Posted: 7 Nov 2011 21:29
Reply 


Volker,

thanks for your reply. I have not yet used a top coat as I'm unsure whether to apply yet another layer of paint. I would have thought that 0.03 v/m would be low enough to be effective.
With regard to 'wrong application', surely the only negative effect would be a reduction in screening, as opposed to feeling worse.

William

Erik
# Posted: 8 Nov 2011 16:53
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Questions to Volker of Y-Shield

Volker.
I have used Y-Shield both in my offices and in my home.
With good results.
In all instances the top cover coats of paint is Dulux emulsion.

Question: Which type of paint is recommended by Y-Shield?
Which types of paint creates problems?

Regards.
Erik

Volker
# Posted: 9 Nov 2011 14:31
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Erik,

I hope you understand German, as we recently made some test regarding that issue, see http://www.yshield.de/de/Abschirmfarben/Haftzugfestigkeiten
It will be available in English soon.

Generally we recommend two layers of water based emulsion paint (also known as latex or vinyl paint), with good hiding power.
We do not recommend mineral bonded systems like silicate paints, clay paints, lime cement paints, plasters, spackles, etc. These products may cause adhesion problems!

If one is not sure which paint to use as top coat he/she should ask his master painter.
Or, one can send us a 200ml sample and we can test it with our "adhesive tensile strength" machine.

What we definitely do not recommend are clay paints and chalk paints.

Any more questions? No problem :-)

Regards,

Volker

William1101
# Posted: 9 Nov 2011 23:51
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Erik,

have you measured the EMF in your home since using the paint?

Regards,

William

Volker
# Posted: 10 Nov 2011 11:05
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Hello William,

do not drive a nail into a wall that is painted with HSF54 but not grounded!
If you hit a cable, the whole surface will be energised.

BR,

Volker

Henrik
Admin
# Posted: 10 Nov 2011 17:10
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William1101 & eric generic,

Have you considered the possibility that you are simply detoxing after screening out the radiation? This has been also been reported by people that started sleeping under screening-canopies.

Cell membranes open up again when radiation is removed and the body starts flushing out heavy metals and other toxins that have accumulated. Such a rapid release of toxins can make you feel ill and can re-uptake if they aren't flushed out properly.

You can support the bodies detoxification by simply drinking enough water throughout the day. You should get at least 1½ - 2 liters a day. Remember that coffee & tea are diuretics that will drive water out of the body. You can further support detoxification and get a natural vitamin boost by taking Chlorella tablets. Pukka brand are the best I've found, but any should do. Available in most health shops.
Dark coloured urine is a sure sign of dehydration. It should, at worst, be barely yellow tint. Also drink plenty of water before bedtime. Yes, you'll probably have to get up and wee in the middle of the night, but your body will love the flush and you'll probably feel more refreshed in the morning.
Dry-mouth is the bodies last cry for water and not the first indication of dehydration as many doctors think. Ever wondered why phlegm is salty? because it's a mechanism of binding and retaining water in the body. Also, cholesterol is water binding, so people with high cholesterol are likely chronically dehydrated.
Prior to dry-mouth, the body is going into survival mode in order to reserve water for primary functions.
For more see "You're not sick, you're thirsty!" by Dr. Batmanghelidj.

Give it a try. I suspect it's got little to do with the YShield itself.

best,
Henrik

ME
# Posted: 10 Nov 2011 23:04
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A friend covered her 2 downstairs living rooms with YShield indoor paint earlier this year. The major problem then was DECT from next door.

The situation improved after several coats of paint [earthed]. In the alcoves to the side of the fireplace she used 5 coats of paint.

This did reduce the exposure level - but I am very electrosensitive and could still feel something with the level of 10uW/M2 [Gigahertz-Solutions HFE35 C meter] after painting the wall. Some phone mast noise but no wifi at the time. DECT was the main problem.

More recently, the situation has worsened. The neighbours have got some new electrical devices and the level coming through the partition wall is 0.24 V/m.[ on her Acoustimeter]. This is since Virgin van appeared. Now she is now also getting wifi through the walls and she now cannot tolerate living in the room.

Volker /Henrik - Virgin and BT are offering HomeHUbs with DECT/wifi and the latest versions are more powerful and further reaching. The neighbours have Sky dish and also possibly have HD+ TV. They are not on friendly terms with the neighbour - they have previously been threatened by neighbours - so they cannot ask them to do something about it.
What do they do next with the shielding???

eric generic
# Posted: 10 Nov 2011 23:31
Reply 


William1101 & eric generic,

Have you considered the possibility that [i]you are simply detoxing
after screening out the radiation? This has been also been reported by people that started sleeping under screening-canopies.[/i]

After three years? The room's no more usable now than at the time it was painted.

I'd like to know the same thing as ME asks above.

EG.

Henrik
Admin
# Posted: 11 Nov 2011 00:54
Reply 


eric generic,

Ok, I see the problem :-/

I've used YShield to successfully screen off two apartments and never had an issue with the paint itself. After three years I would think that the paint would have degassed completely.

Is the feeling of discomfort same as with EMF? What's the level of radiation inside the room?

I would help if you describe how you applied the paint, did the earthing etc.

In response to ME:
Sorry to hear about your friends problems.
0.24 V/m is approx. 150 µW/m2 - which is a lot if you ask me.
Yes, HomeHubs are from hell. The Sky dish should be a receiver only, unless they are using some sort of transmitter to relay the TV signal inside the house.
How to screen it out? I'm thinking aluminium-coated wallpaper (grounded) from floor to ceiling. I've used that stuff under flooring to completely eliminate wifi and dect from underneath apartment. I made sure the sheets overlapped, thus forming one large conductive surface.

Volker
# Posted: 11 Nov 2011 10:44
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@ME

5 coats of paint? Guys, it is not a matter of how many layers you use to achieve higher attenuation. You should pay attention to an extensive shielding like Henrik recommended too. I agree with Henrik and would like to hear your answers regarding his questions about level of radiation inside your room.
I assume that you have some reflections inside.

alasdairp
Member
# Posted: 11 Nov 2011 10:59 - Edited by: alasdairp
Reply 


I don't believe it is the actual Y-shield paint that is the problem in either of the above cases. The first question that comes to my mind is "have you measured the power-frequency (50Hz) electric fields in the room?"

ES people can react to RF and/or ELF fields. At ELF it is almost always the electric field component that people react to. You have effectively removed the RF component (0.03 V/m RF is a good low level). Power frequency electric fields (you need an ELF electric field meter to measure these) should ideally always be below 10 V/m and ideally below 3 V/m - especially for ES people. In most rooms in most houses in the UK they are 5 to 80 V/m depending where you are, rising dramatically towards where any wiring is located (e.g. by wall light switches).

Electrical fields upstairs usually mostly come from the lighting wiring for downstairs (i.e. the floor below). This causes an earthing dilemma as regards the paint. If you earth the paint on upstairs room walls then the electric field you will experience will almost always greatly INCREASE unless, as Henrik has done, you place earthed foil on the floor of the rooms to absorb the electric fields from the downstairs ceiling lighting circuits. If you don't do this then you become part of the electric path between that underfloor wiring and your now earthed walls. That is why we don't recommend earthing the paint if only on one or two walls. It is a difficult judgement call. In the UK you don't have to earth wall paint.

Best results are achieved if you paint all walls and ceiling (and possibly the door) in the room to be protected and (ESSENTIAL!) you earth the floor surface to stop ELF electric fields (and RF - it is surprising how much RF can sometimes be reflected of the ground and come up through the floor). Of course, the windows must be screened using special window film or high-quality screening fabrics. Then the room is most like a Faraday cage and the fields inside will be very low indeed.

Painting just one or two walls is fine and is often adequate, but as you paint or otherwise screen more of a room you can end up in a situation where the RF is still getting in (though window or door opening) and it then bounces around inside the room. Ceilings and floors must not be ignored as potential sources of RF ingress. Often it is not necessary to screen them, but sometimes it is.

Good ventilation is crucial for everyone - especially sensitive people. I am constantly amazed when visiting homes how many rooms have their windows shut all the time. Unless you have forced internal air circulation and change using heat recovery to heat incoming fresh air, then you should have enough natural ventialtion to ensure a full air-change every few hours. Many semi-sealed homes are toxic time bombs, with chemicals outgassing from funiture, carpets, plastic goods, etc, all of which can cause adverse syptoms. Ideally the windows should all have trickle ventilators which should be left open. This was not necessary in olden days as wooden windows rarely fitted that well (unlike modern doubleglazed units with rubber or plastic sealing strips) and also most furnishings were not coated with chemicals like fire retardants.

Erik
# Posted: 11 Nov 2011 16:19
Reply 


Alasdair
You say: quote:
"In the UK you don't have to earth wall paint."

Please explain.
Regards.
Erik

ericgeneric
Member
# Posted: 11 Nov 2011 18:10 - Edited by: ericgeneric
Reply 


I wish we'd never used the paint. With the higher levels around now from massive wi-fi and extra masts, it's a futile and impractical method of trying to lessen the load anyway, not to mention expensive.

In a bungalow, there is no downstairs to worry about, and besides the entire room - doors, ceiling, walls, earthed floor - was supposedly done. Our readings were apparently much the same as William's - somewhere between 0.01 and 0.03, but the room feels very different to all the others in the house, none of which have the paint. It's obviously reacted to something, and continues to react, in a way that the other rooms do not - they fluctuate and have areas which can be temporarily shielded so I can stay in them for a few hours.

Maybe this paint just doesn't work for certain ES people and/certain houses/properties. Everyone and everywhere is different.

On paper, with all the science and equations, I'm sure it looks a good solution. It's just perhaps impratical for a lot of situations.

EG.

Henrik
Admin
# Posted: 12 Nov 2011 14:22
Reply 


ericgeneric,

you write that the readings are between: 0.01 and 0.03. I'm assuming the unit of measure is V/m. That's equivalent to: 0.26 and 2.38 µW/m2.
That's not much, but if you are severely EHS then the upper level might be bad enough. How do those readings compare to the other spaces in the house that you can tolerate?

also you write: "the entire room - doors, ceiling, walls, earthed floor - was supposedly done". Did you have a contractor come in and do this?

best,
Henrik

ericgeneric
Member
# Posted: 12 Nov 2011 17:28
Reply 


Henrik, yes we did. It cost over £1000, for a survey and then the complete shielding of a room. We've since been told that it's almost impossible to create a faraday cage-type setup in a modern-day home.

Those readings are slightly lower than other places in the house, but I guess the difference - from a sensation perspective (ie how the painted room feels to my body and affects it) - is there is simply nowhere in the room, no corner or area to get relief from the EMRs (or whatever the Yshield plus paint plus miscellaneous EMFs in the vicinity). It's like one buzzing, stinging, claustrophobic zone of this "stuff".

EG.

agnes
# Posted: 13 Nov 2011 16:14
Reply 


ericgeneric.
What about your windows in the shielded room?
Have you done anything about them?
Film, curtain mesh etc?

I know that where we have used the Yshield paint the whole room has changed atmosphere, from beeing a very "white noice" place, it has changed to a very nice, quiet space, and we are not even finished yet.

You talk about micellaneous EMF´s in the vicinity. Where from, and How does it get into your shielded room?

If you keep a wireless gadget in the room, say a dect phone, mobile or a laptop, I can imagine the radiation bouncing between the walls in there as it cannot get out.
Let us know.
Best regards.
Agnes

ericgeneric
Member
# Posted: 13 Nov 2011 18:04 - Edited by: ericgeneric
Reply 


Agnes,

We have no wireless devices in the house at all, let alone in one room. EMFs/EMR travels through brick walls, so the properties either side are giving off all kinds of electrosmog (which any meters have also picked up on), then there is the huge phone mast 90m away in one direction, and another one about 500m or so in the other direction.

We have had the windows shielded with that ghastly mesh material. It made the room feel even worse.

As ME alluded to, sometimes there is just too much radiation coming into a room or a home, for any shileding materials to adequately protect you. We are in that situation. I can get a tiny measure of relief from certain products that shield the person rather than a whole space, but creating a faraday cage in our property has proven impossible, and we have even been told as much by third party professionals.

EG.

Volker
# Posted: 14 Nov 2011 13:25
Reply 


@ericgeneric
I wish we'd never used the paint. With the higher levels around now from massive wi-fi and extra masts, it's a futile and impractical method of trying to lessen the load anyway, not to mention expensive.

Sorry but I totally disagree with you. There is no shielding material that is cheaper and which has the same high attenuation. How can you say it is futile?
Anyway, in some cases it would be better to mve.

ericgeneric
Member
# Posted: 14 Nov 2011 14:05 - Edited by: ericgeneric
Reply 


Hi Volker, of course you will defend your products, I wouldn't expect anything else. And I am sure in some situations, the paint provides enough protection for certain people. But as the levels of EMR and blanket electrosmog increase dramatically in everyday life, which is already happening in most places, greater shielding is going to be necessary. And it's clear, with three people in this topic alone saying the paint has not helped, or did help but now doesn't, that it's a growing problem.

You, and Alisdair, or whoever, can come on here to defend these products, but it's still just all about masking a bigger issue...that of ES itself, and why this is being allowed to happen to the public. I think there have to be better ways to help the ES population than asking them to do things which are out of the realms for most ordinary, and sick, people to cope with. They should not be asked to take on the impossible responsibility of creating virtual faraday cages, and turning their homes into freak shows.

Moving home, just like expecting ill people to paint their homes and become some kind of electronics engineers with meters and materials and readings, is not always possible.

EG.

Volker
# Posted: 14 Nov 2011 15:13
Reply 


Eric,
You, and Alisdair, or whoever, can come on here to defend these products, but it's still just all about masking a bigger issue...that of ES itself, and why this is being allowed to happen to the public.
Yes correct. I definitely agree but it is not hard to understand that ALL shielding products available do REFLECT HF radiation. You cannot blame the paint only. If you had used alternative products you would have gotten the same results.
I can say that I have 50 conversations each day via mail and phone from people all over the world. The problem is definitely global and I do understand that for some people it is very difficult to aplly shielding products properly. But there are only few things to consider. You must know about the shielding characteristics (HF reflection not absorption) and about the frequency.
While fabrics are mostly frequency dependent (the higher the frequency the lower the attenuation), HSF54 gives you a linear attenuation.
The paint has not helped is a false statement!

Eric, what are your further plans?

Kind regards,
Volker

ericgeneric
Member
# Posted: 14 Nov 2011 16:34
Reply 


The problem is definitely global and I do understand that for some people it is very difficult to aplly shielding products properly. But there are only few things to consider. You must know about the shielding characteristics (HF reflection not absorption) and about the frequency.

Well that is exactly what I was saying; that to the scientists and experts who work in these fields, and develop the products and devise the concepts of shielding, this is all very straightforward. Also on paper the solutions seem logical. But in the real world, this crazy messed-up world full of ever-more-powerful EMR and EMFs, sometimes it's not that easy and the science behind it, the knowledge and understanding required by laypeople, old people and ill people to put the science into practice by turning their homes into prisons of mesh, carbon paints and reflective material is not necessarily within their abilities.

That the paint has not helped *me* is simply a personal statement. It may well help others, but to what extent that continues to be as the levels get higher and higher with smart meters, HD Digital TV and more smartphones is anyone's guess.

Putting the emphasis onto the affected to somehow figure out all this science, know how to use the materials, take readings, and actually apply it all by themselves when they are already suffering, just isn't right. Which is not a criticism of YShield manufacturers, but a damning indictment of how this whole sorry mess is playing out within society.

Next for me? I have no idea. Just to survive each day with the things I have at my disposal.

EG.

charles
Member
# Posted: 15 Nov 2011 21:53
Reply 


Hello,

maybe the problems is in the grounding.

I have obeserved that several times.
Even with a canopy, with floot mat.
When it was grounded, the electrosensitive personen *jumped*.

Be aware that many groundings do contain a l;ot of *dirty frequencies* which you bring just INTO the room, and the walls are transmitting them.

These frequencies may be between 1Hz up to 30MHz.

See: http://www.milieuziektes.nl/Pagina11.html
and scroll down to 10-04-2011 *Dirty air*
Look at the spectrum analysises.

Anonymous
# Posted: 16 Jan 2012 11:14
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hi
has anyone in adelaide south australia used YSHIELD Paints and if so can they let me know who they used to earth and paint their homes and how they are feeling since/ thankyou very much

Volker
# Posted: 16 Jan 2012 12:35
Reply 


Please ask here: www.yshield.com.au

chrisanddoug@ip rimus.com.au
# Posted: 17 Jan 2012 03:03
Reply 


Thankyou Volker
yshield australia were not able to give me that information i think that they tend to do the work as a project and employ their people which i can't afford to do so i have had a look at the Emr australia site it had great information on it, so i will paint the house myself and get an electrican to ground it.
thanks again

chrisanddog@ip rimus.com.au
# Posted: 17 Jan 2012 03:07
Reply 


chrisanddoug@ip rimus.com.au

William1101
# Posted: 14 Feb 2012 23:18
Reply 


I'm still a bit stuck on this.
Using a canopy (in addition to the paint) seems to help.
Without the canopy I suffer from a lot of mental 'chatter' just before sleep, and then awake early in the morning. I'm about 200m from a phone mast.
My only conclusion is that I'm reacting to 0.03 V/m
Any thoughts?

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