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orage
Member
# Posted: 30 Jul 2010 22:43
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I recently got a Topas Canopy, I am struggling to get used to it, my partner is more EMF sensitive than me, and she is better off for sure.
although EMF affects my sleep patterns, with the canopy I find i am really groggy in the mornings, feel as though there is pressure on my head, although I do get a good sleep.
was wondering did any of you find this, and whether it improved.

daniel
Member
# Posted: 3 Aug 2010 02:07
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I have tried a topas canopy many times and it make me fell like this too. I don't use it any moore.

Anonymous
# Posted: 3 Aug 2010 21:03
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Orage/Daniel

I note that the Topas canopy cannot be earthed according to information that I found on one website.

I wonder have either of you measured the low frequency electrical field inside the canopy [50/60 Hz that is sometimes picked up from domestic electrical wiring]?

ES

Anonymous
# Posted: 4 Aug 2010 12:44
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Orage/Daniel

I am curious about just how much microwave frequencies shielding you were getting from this Topas netting. Did you by any chance measure the bedroom microwave radiation exposure levels before and after canopy was put up?

What sort of microwave radiation levels are you trying to shield against?
What frequencies [or devices] are you shielding against?
Phone masts GSM/UMTS [2G/3G], neighbours' mobile phones/ DECT/ wifi 2.4 Ghz/5.8 GHz, WIMAX....?

Have a look here at the graph:
http://www.breathing-easy.net/rf-shielding-fabric/topas-radio-frequency-microwave-shi elding-fabric

The graph does not show very good shielding, especially at higher frequencies [~20dB at 1 GHz and 10dB at just over 3 GHz].

ES

Anonymous
# Posted: 4 Aug 2010 12:46
Reply 


Orage/Daniel

I am curious about just how much microwave frequencies shielding you were getting from this Topas netting. Did you by any chance measure the bedroom microwave radiation exposure levels before and after canopy was put up?

What sort of microwave radiation levels are you trying to shield against?
What frequencies [or devices] are you shielding against?
Phone masts GSM/UMTS [2G/3G], neighbours' mobile phones/ DECT/ wifi 2.4 Ghz/5.8 GHz, WIMAX....?

Have a look here at the graph:
http://www.breathing-easy.net/rf-shielding-fabric/topas-radio-frequency-microwave-shi elding-fabric

The graph does not show very good shielding, especially at higher frequencies [~20dB at 1 GHz and 10dB at just over 3 GHz].

ES

daniel
Member
# Posted: 4 Aug 2010 15:07
Reply 


What sort of microwave radiation levels are you trying to shield against?
wifi, 2.4 GHz
Did you by any chance measure the bedroom microwave radiation exposure levels before and after canopy was put up?
Yes, the canopy shield almost all the waves. Somethings else is wrong with this fabric.

orage
Member
# Posted: 4 Aug 2010 21:43
Reply 


ES / Daniel

I have no device to measure the radiation in the room, but I am looking at the possibility of taking a measurement inside and out.
There is a hotel at less than 1km, with a standard mobile phone transmitters, but recently they have installed a wimax transmitter.
There is also wifi in the building.

I need to investigate it more, I have it well sealed, I even have the material on the floor, but the canopy is not earthed.
My partner finds its really good, and i don't doubt that, but maybe my body is slower to adjust.

Anonymous
# Posted: 5 Aug 2010 00:12
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Orage/Daniel

Wifi and Wimax/phone masts - That is bad!

It is possible to hire or buy equipment to measure the radiation and the electrical fields from the electrical wiring etc.

If you are in the UK you could hire meters for measuring [1] the high frequency [Acoustimeter] and [2] the low frequency electrical fields from EMFields for a week.

You need to find out just what RF levels are coming into your accommodation. And, measure your exposures to RF and electrical fields/magnetic fields under the canopy.

You might also look at these websites
www.powerwatch.org.uk
and
http://www.shop.wireless-protection.org/

I suggest that you contact Emfields. http://www.emfields.org/equipment/overview.asp

ES

daniel
Member
# Posted: 5 Aug 2010 13:57
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Thank you for the links ES but I ve got my own detectors.

Sean
Member
# Posted: 8 Aug 2010 07:08
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Hello. I made my own canopy using aluminum mosquito screening, thin long pieces of light wood, glue, some hooks, a length of rope, and a staple gun. Total cost, about 50 euro.

The aluminum mosquito screening works just as well as the topaz fabric. I know this for a fact because I bought some topaz fabric at a ridiculous price and have measured both the topaz and the mosquito screening with a Gigahertz Solutions HF meter against the 2.1Ghz radiation from a 3G mobile phone mast in line of sight about 300m away. There is no significant difference.

My question though is about dirty electricity inside the canopy. Specifically, i want to know what frequencies "transients" could possibly rise to. Outside, inside, on the surface of, the canopy, the low frequency meter reads 0. But my LF meter only measures up to 100khz. Given that the room I'm in has almost 0 LF emf, is it possible for the dirty electricity inside the canopy to be above 100khz and that therefore it might be there but my meter isn't picking it up? What frequency range would "dirty electricity" likely to fall into?

daniel
Member
# Posted: 8 Aug 2010 14:59
Reply 


Hello. I made my own canopy using aluminum mosquito screening, thin long pieces of light wood, glue, some hooks, a length of rope, and a staple gun. Total cost, about 50 euro.
And how do you feel in your canopy, good sleep? I've tried that and it give me sorethroat.

What frequency range would "dirty electricity" likely to fall into?
Dirty electricity is in the range 100Khz and 1Mhz. Your aluminium screen will shield that.

Anonymous
# Posted: 11 Aug 2010 13:14
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Hi, everyone.

really interested in shared experiences, as over 1 year of pain since I lost my ability to sleep I have also tried several variants and they don't seem to work for me :(
In most cases I read 0.1uW on my HF Gigaherz meters, low values for low frequency electric and magnetic fields (also measured on Gigaherz device) but my heart continues to beat like crazy (I get very loud heart beats, but not increased pulse nor irregular beats, just very loud, especially after 10 pm. No mast in the near site (the closest is about 2 km away), still can not sleep at night.
I have tried as canopy:
- alu plastified foil (works best so far, no mobile phone signal inside, but my heart still beats loud and I still get up 3-4 time at night at stare at the ceiling without falling back asleep), not grounded
- mosquito mesh (<1 mm holes diam), 0.1uW and 3 signal lines out of 5 on signal power, tried both grounded and not grounded
- incredibly expensive fleece with very high shielding power from a specialised seller - could not sleep even a night in it, tried both grounded and not grounded
- tried this fleece as canopy, curtain, paravan, you name it - nightmare everytime, I had to bring it down
- recently tried to build a canopy from sheer metal boards (that you might find on your roofs) - all sides from this and 1 small one from mosquito mesh - no good

I am back in the alu plastified canopy and asking myself: if the HF meter reads 0.1uW, why does my body react like there is a mast very close? I am at country side for months now and I can easily spot any mast visually, but none in close sight. The only idea I have is that there could be another transmitter in the area >2.5GH (the max my HF device can read) and that can cause my problems. Do you have any experience in shielding against >2.5GH radiation?
WiMax is not available in the region.

Recently I went to a hut in the mountains, to get away from radiation. It was an area where mobile phones hardly worked, most of the time out of coverage. I had terrible headaches, nausea, the usual pounds at heart, insomnia, burning sensations - the usual. Next day I started to ask the peaceful neighbours (hundreds of meters away) - there was one of them who installed a receiver that picked internet over RF from 6.5km away ! I saw the device, it was a small thing like a sttelite dish only made of mesh. It nearly put me out during 1 night :(

Looking fwd to your thoughts and experiences,

An active fellow in the radiation fight
LF

Anonymous
# Posted: 12 Aug 2010 21:34
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Hi; Yes recently I have come to the realization of why we can hear the HUM in the wilderness. No way to sight the tower, because the tower can be 35 - 50 kms away. Microwave repeaters and thier connection to low orbit earth satellites. Thats what I think it is anyway. See satellite phones
I know it doesn't help much, but know your not alone in your suffering, and know that because you have shared this info. I will not use resources that I can't afford to try and escape.

Has anyone tried pure foam mattresses with out a box spring for sleeping yet?
Thanks
Patty

daniel
Member
# Posted: 15 Aug 2010 13:58
Reply 


I am back in the alu plastified canopy and asking myself: if the HF meter reads 0.1uW, why does my body react like there is a mast very close? I am at country side for months now and I can easily spot any mast visually, but none in close sight. The only idea I have is that there could be another transmitter in the area >2.5GH (the max my HF device can read) and that can cause my problems. Do you have any experience in shielding against >2.5GH radiation?
WiMax is not available in the region.

How can you breath if your canopy is made with aluminium foild? I have tried many canopies and it doesn't work even if my detectors show no radiation. The only answer is the mirowave make metal particles coming out the fabric and make me sick. Now I have shielded my bedroom walls with Swiss shield fabric (10Ghz) covered with plastic (prewash) and I can sleep.

Has anyone tried pure foam mattresses with out a box spring for sleeping yet?
Thanks
Patty

Yes me 3 years ago, I didn't note a difference. The best way is to shield the EMR.

Sean
Member
# Posted: 16 Aug 2010 09:34 - Edited by: Sean
Reply 


"I have tried many canopies and it doesn't work even if my detectors show no radiation. The only answer is the mirowave make metal particles coming out the fabric and make me sick."

Is that the only answer? Maybe, as you said in your reply to my post, the canopy is radiating dirty electricity or high frequency transients in the 100khz-1mghz range and your detectors aren't detecting these because your detectors cannot measure 100khz-1mghz?? I'm asking this as a question because I am concerned about this myself becauzase my detectors don't measure in that range. Are you sure inside your formeer canopy you weren't gettring these frequencies?

How could microwave metal particles be coming out and are not capable of being measured?

I'm not sure if my canopy works as far as my health goes because I'm not too symptomatic. It does reduce the radiation.


"Now I have shielded my bedroom walls with Swiss shield fabric (10Ghz) covered with plastic (prewash) and I can sleep."

"covered with plastic (prewash) " means:???

good to hear this solution works fore you, but very expensive?

daniel
Member
# Posted: 16 Aug 2010 14:17
Reply 


Is that the only answer? Maybe, as you said in your reply to my post, the canopy is radiating dirty electricity or high frequency transients in the 100khz-1mghz range and your detectors aren't detecting these because your detectors cannot measure 100khz-1mghz?? I'm asking this as a question because I am concerned about this myself becauzase my detectors don't measure in that range. Are you sure inside your formeer canopy you weren't gettring these frequencies?

I detect dirty electricity with a Graham Stetzer detector directly by the electric outlets of the room.


How could microwave metal particles be coming out and are not capable of being measured?

There's evidence here EMR makes metal corrosion, look p.3 here http://www.next-up.org/pdf/Andrew_Michrowski_Ph_D_Exposition_Cem_21_04_2009.pdf
I'm sure it can be measured.


"covered with plastic (prewash) " means:???

I mean I don't like the scent of new plastic foild so I wash it or just hang it outside for a couple of days.


good to hear this solution works fore you, but very expensive?

It is not expensive because in this way you have just to shield the walls where the EMR come from.

Anonymous
# Posted: 17 Aug 2010 13:56
Reply 


Question - About earthing of canopies

Earthing of canopies can be done by using:
earthing pin of an electrial plug
connecting to copper pipe

But what if these means of earthing are themselves picking up HF EMR coming in from outside? It is physically difficult [health reasons] and too costly to shield the whole house from phone mast radiation. We now have Pilkington K windows which helped greatly reduce the 2G/3G.

I tried an alternative shielding method of running a long length of single core wire from bedroom, through the window seal, down wall of house, and attached to a length of copper pipe buried in the garden border to earth to ground. We are in the middle of a housing estate.
Unfortunately, when i checked with a meter the wire that was coming into the bedroom with a Gigahertz HF meter it was picking up mainly DECT broadcast from neighbouring houses [plus some 3G] . Adding a ferrite on the bedroom side of the wire did not stop it. So this idea was abandoned.

I have a canopy which has improved things but no eliminated the problems. My levels under the canopy are low but there is still something there causing sleeplessness/ prickling.
I too wonder about low frequencies that i cannot measure....

I tried measuring skin voltage [a.c.] when in bed under the canopy = ~ 1 V/m.

I do not have a Stetzer filter.

AV

Anonymous
# Posted: 17 Aug 2010 13:59
Reply 


Question - About earthing of canopies

Earthing of canopies can be done by using:
earthing pin of an electrial plug
connecting to copper pipe

But what if these means of earthing are themselves picking up HF EMR coming in from outside? It is physically difficult [health reasons] and too costly to shield the whole house from phone mast radiation. We now have Pilkington K windows which helped greatly reduce the 2G/3G.

I tried an alternative shielding method of running a long length of single core wire from bedroom, through the window seal, down wall of house, and attached to a length of copper pipe buried in the garden border to earth to ground. We are in the middle of a housing estate.
Unfortunately, when i checked with a meter the wire that was coming into the bedroom with a Gigahertz HF meter it was picking up mainly DECT broadcast from neighbouring houses [plus some 3G] . Adding a ferrite on the bedroom side of the wire did not stop it. So this idea was abandoned.

I have a canopy which has improved things but no eliminated the problems. My levels under the canopy are low but there is still something there causing sleeplessness/ prickling.
I too wonder about low frequencies that i cannot measure....

I tried measuring skin voltage [a.c.] when in bed under the canopy = ~ 1 V/m.

I do not have a Stetzer filter.

AV

Anonymous
# Posted: 18 Aug 2010 13:18
Reply 


Dear Patty, Daniel,

thanks a lot for your replies and encouragement !

Daniel, breathing in the plastified alu foil canopy is not a joy, but for the moment it's the only way I can catch a few hours sleep per night.
Could you pls provide some more details about your solution with "Swiss shield fabric (10Ghz)"? Does it shield well > 2.5G ? Any details like shielding factor in db / frequency, cost per m or links would help, as I was thinking to try on of their canopies as a last resort.
Also, when you say you sleep well, could you pls specify which symptoms you lost?
What is the source of radiation for you (just wifi or also cell towers? What are your HF readings for wifi? In a previous appartment the meter showed only 15 uW but I could not stay even 10 min in that room, terrible headaches, loss of concentration, dizzyness, felt like druged. As soon as I went out, everyhing fine in 5 min.

Anyone had any good experience with the Swiss Shield Naturell canopies (Swiss Shield New Daylite shielding is low for me)? Do the symptoms go away or just reduce slightly?
I experience loud heart beats, I can feel & hear my pulse during the night (during the day it's not that bad, just suffocating a bit). One day there was a power cut and all the antennas went off - I felt that immediatelly, before even checing the signal on the mobile phone. Paradise for a few hours, all my body & mood parameters were up, like I never felt in years. Then the signal resumed and bad I was again.

Many thanks for your thoughts, ladies and gents :)

LF

daniel
Member
# Posted: 18 Aug 2010 13:34
Reply 


I have a canopy which has improved things but no eliminated the problems. My levels under the canopy are low but there is still something there causing sleeplessness/ prickling.
I too wonder about low frequencies that i cannot measure....

My idea is the canopy let some particle of metal out of the thread wire and breathing that is harmful. It's better to shield yours walls where the EMR come from.

Anonymous
# Posted: 18 Aug 2010 17:16
Reply 


Thanks, Daniel !

What Swiss Shield fabric have you used? Naturell or Daylite?

LF

daniel
Member
# Posted: 19 Aug 2010 01:30
Reply 


What Swiss Shield fabric have you used? Naturell or Daylite?

I use Naturel because it shield up to 10 Ghz, that include DECT phone and radar. My protections are made with 3 lawyers of this fabric for a 100% protection.

Anonymous
# Posted: 19 Aug 2010 19:25
Reply 


Daniel

What shielding do you have under your mattress or bed?
Do you have any shielding material against any RF coming from below - or anything to earth electrical 50/60 Hz electrical fields?

AV

daniel
Member
# Posted: 20 Aug 2010 14:30
Reply 


AV

<What shielding do you have under your mattress or bed?
None, because there are no radiation coming from there.

Do you have any shielding material against any RF coming from below - or anything to earth electrical 50/60 Hz electrical fields?
Yes on the roof to shield the electrical field from the power line. I've fixed a aluminium sreen with a seperate ground

charles
# Posted: 6 Sep 2010 10:19
Reply 


A canopy is the very last thing we, as building biologist, do recommend.
The only good ones are mad by Aaronia.de, but they are very expensive.

Quite a number of people are enthousiatic about canopies in the beginning, but after a few weeks they dismantle them.
The air inside has negative effects.
And you can have a coupling of electrical fields.

In my opinion, the material is too close to the body.

If you want shielding, place materials against the walls.

I am also againts films against window panes.
If you have HR++ glass, no shielding is needed, but the window frames do let the radiation through.
Therfore, I recommend a curtain os a shielding material over the completz facade; than you shield it all.
That is also a solution if you live in a rented house. When you move, you take it with you.
There are many types of material to choose from; like the Diamant for low intensities, to the Topas, Swiss Shield, etc.

Guest
# Posted: 6 Sep 2010 14:16
Reply 


@charles

I totally agree with you except one thing: "The only good ones are made by Aaronia.de" - So why do you recommend SwissShield then in your last phrase. You also find SwissShield canopies on the market and their quality is outstanding. How can you recommend a company like Aaronis which claims to sell shielding material with 100 dB? That´s really eyewash and unprofessional. Furthermore their fabrics change their color in the course of time.
Sorry, but that´s a fact.

charles
# Posted: 6 Sep 2010 17:41
Reply 


WQell guest,
let us stay with the facts.
We are talking about canopies and their material.
We are not talking about materials against wall.
Your mentioned materials of 100 dB is not suited for a canopy, but is a kind of wallpaper. Biologa also has materials for placing against walls, mostly metal mesh.

For canopies the Aaronia has a damping factor of 50 dB, while the other materials do have a maximum of 40 dB.
Of course, a max of 40 dB can be sufficient, when the frequencies are low and the radiation level is not high.

But in practice, some people in f.i. Amsterdam, who are using the Aaronia canopies are satisfied, while I have seen that other canopies were dismantled later on.

I don't care what you want to use, or brand, but I personnally am against the use of canopies.
Only as a last resort.

Guest
# Posted: 7 Sep 2010 16:27
Reply 


@Charles

I see your point but as this canopy consists of oxidised silver it won´t guarantee a long stability. So much for that. So you shouldn´t recommend these canopies as mentioned in your previous message.
So far so good :)

Sean
Member
# Posted: 8 Sep 2010 04:47
Reply 


"Quite a number of people are enthousiatic about canopies in the beginning, but after a few weeks they dismantle them.
The air inside has negative effects.
And you can have a coupling of electrical fields."

If there is a coupling of electrical fields, or any electrical field inside a canopy, should you not be able to measure them? In what frequency range would they be so one could u se the correct device to measure them? I get a reading of "0" with LF meter that measure up to 100Khz all around the bed.

My canopy is self-made of aluminum mesh with sides, top and head of the bed covered, but the foot of the bed is open, no mesh at that end of the bed because the radiation is coming from the opposite direction. What do you think of this and should it be grounded?

My walls are also covered with alum mesh, should they be grounded too?

thanks

Volker
# Posted: 9 Sep 2010 11:45
Reply 


Hello Sean,

I will try to answer your question before Charles anticipates me :) He is obviously no big fan of canopies. But he can give you a more precise answer regarding measurements.

But let me start with your wall which is covered with aluminum mesh.
Well, aluminum is highly conductive. Therefore you have to ground it as this is a regulation. Are you from the U.S.?
Electric fields emerge from the current lines in the walls. 50Hz in Europe, 60Hz in the USA. Shielding these fields by grounding the wall is a positive side effect. You also avoid a coupling.
If you measure 0 V around the bed it is not absolutely necessary to ground the canopy also. But you should avoid that f.e. unshielded cables (from bedside lamps) touch the canopy.

You say that "Quite a number of people are enthousiatic about canopies in the beginning, but after a few weeks they dismantle them."
To be honest, I would also feel bad in a canopy made of alu mesh :)
My experience shows that people do indeed feel well in their canopies. Some even have ones made of cotton fabric which has not the best air inside. But I am not telling you any news - people are different in their feelings.

What I generally do not understand is why some people have an averseness to canopies. In many cases such canopies provide a complete protection from HF and are a reasonable alternative to a complete shielding of a house or flat. Or it is at least a temporary solution.
With canopies you are not facing difficulties like reflections or unshielded spots.

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