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Anonymous
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2012 11:56
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@LF
...the low frequency signals from next door's DECT/wifi will not be blocked.
LF fields from DECT? What are you talking about?
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LF
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2012 13:26
Reply
@anonymous - "LF fields from DECT? What are you talking about?"
---------------------------------------------------------
What am I talking about?
I was referring to the 100Hz [LF] modulation added to DECT.
Do a search for "100 Hz + DECT". You will get lots of hits for reliable sources - e.g. TETRAWATCH, Powerwatch, EMFacts, Buergerwelle, and building biologist websites.
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http://www.spectran.com/Hochfrequenz-Tonaufnahmen_en.shtml
Go to this website and you can listen to the audio recordings of signals and also look at the traces for a variety of HF RF signals.
The first trace is for DECT.
DESCRIPTION:
Here you will find a variety of audio recordings of high-frequency sources like DECT phones, mobile phone transmission towers, microwave ovens etc. which have been recorded using the HF-Detektor II Profi. Also included in the case of pulsed signals is a graphical representation
The base station of a DECT phone always sends pulses at 100 Hz even while you DON'T talk.
DECT gives me a terrible headache!
LF
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 12 Jun 2012 10:19
Reply
@LF
Thank you very much for that! Very very helpful.
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charles
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jun 2012 13:34
Reply
Quite a number of recorded signals can be found at:
http://www.milieuziektes.nl/Pagina109.html
PS. wireless modems are pulsed with 10Hz.
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LF
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# Posted: 12 Jun 2012 18:58
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@Anonymous
It has been known for a long time that low frequency modulations can have bad physiological and psychological effects.
Look up Barrie Trower. His articles/letters/lectures are worth reading.
Here are two of them:
Jan 14, 2009 ... An open letter Open Letter from Barrie Trower: ... phone with a pulse/modulation frequency of 25 could act directly on visual sight (if being held ...
http://weepnews.blogspot.com/2009/01/open-letter-open-letter-from-barrie.html
During the Cold War, Barrie Trower's job for the British Secret Service ... Today, Barrie Trower is shocked to see the proliferation of microwave ... pulse/ modulation frequency of 25 could act directly on visual sight ... open Letter from Barrie Trower:
http://www.microwaveradiationnews.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/history_of_ microwaves_open_letter-1.pdf
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charles
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jun 2012 11:11
Reply
And here Barrie Trower goes wrong.
Mobile phones are pulsed with 217Hz, not 25Hz.
I asked him where he got this 25Hz from, but he evaded my question and wrote me, that I had to ask the mobile phone companies about that.
Since then, Barrie Trower has lost my confidence.
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Henrik
Admin
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# Posted: 13 Jun 2012 15:02
Reply
charles,
Looking at the flyer for Barrie's lecture it says:
"** It is worth mentioning that a mobile phone with a pulse/modulation frequency of 25 could act directly on visual sight (if being held at head), or heartbeat (if in a chest pocket). A frequency of 25 can disrupt both visual and heart neurotransmitters."
As far as I see, it's a hypothetical example not an actual example of mobile-phones, as we know them, are modulated.
Why he evaded your question I can't say, but I wouldn't dismiss him so easily. He's done so much to warn about the dangers of microwave radiation.
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ES
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# Posted: 13 Jun 2012 17:21
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Charles,
I would not dismiss Barrie Trower so easily either. He spent time debriefing spies and also working in the area of Underwater microwave weapons. Clearly, he will still be unable to reveal certain things about his past government work. Possible reasons for his evasion when you spoke to him?
I experienced irregular heart beat when in holiday accomodation - the neighbour had a mobile phone, i Phone or other device on overnight. I had to move rooms. I have developed severe tightening of the chest muscles when a large wireless speaker was being used at an outdoor event. I have to screen my chest as best as i can.
ES
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ME
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# Posted: 19 Jul 2012 19:29
Reply
Follow-Up to my April 2012 posting on the emfclothing.
I spend most of my time at home wearing my floppy hat and the pink vest [as a tank-top] over a blouse. I go nowhere without the hat.
The blue blouse is a thick material. I wear it outdoors over a thin T-shirt as a kind of cardigan. Yes, I find that it helps. Certainly, I always wear it on my trips into the town.
The blue blouse can get warm when the weather is hot.
Some people might prefer a lighter material... for the Summer anyway.
Certainly it should be cosy in the Autumn / Winter.
I intend getting a pair of the blue trousers.
All this is very expensive but needs must.
I have lots of metal in my body and need to protect myself.
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ME
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2012 19:33
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Recent video - well worth watching.
Barrie Trower - 30 Minute Reality Update / Microwave Weapons
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZdB-tbzJSrk
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LF
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# Posted: 8 Aug 2012 12:22
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Shielding clothing is sold by [1] EMClothing, and [2] EMFields.
http://emfclothing.com/ps/
http://www.emfields.org/new-products.asp
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LF
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# Posted: 8 Aug 2012 12:42
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Shielding clothing is sold by [1] EMF Clothing, and [2] EMFields.
http://emfclothing.com/ps/
http://www.emfields.org/new-products.asp
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ann
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# Posted: 13 Aug 2012 19:41
Reply
Has ther any work / observations etc about the effects of microwaves on babies? If adults get so ill with mobile phones and wifis what happens to very small children? I am sure protection will be very useful.
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Henrik
Admin
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# Posted: 14 Aug 2012 08:08
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Dear ann,
"Prenatal and postnatal exposure to cell phone use and behavioral problems in children."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18467962
and a follow-up study:
"Cell phone use and behavioural problems in young children."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21138897
also in rat fetuses:
"Cell phone use in pregnancy may cause behavioral disorders in offspring"
http://news.yale.edu/2012/03/15/cell-phone-use-pregnancy-may-cause-behavioral-disorde rs-offspring
Russian long-term studies on children and mobile-phone radiation:
"Psychophysiological Indicators for Child Users of Mobile Communications Devices: 1) Overview of Present State of the Problem and 2) Results of 4-Year Monitoring of Cognitive, Memory and Other Functions in 196 Children Ages 7-12 who used Mobile Communications Devices"
http://electromagnetichealth.org/electromagnetic-health-blog/russian-res-children-emf /
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ann
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# Posted: 14 Aug 2012 17:22
Reply
Henrik,
Thanks for all your efforts.
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charles
Member
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# Posted: 15 Aug 2012 12:04
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Read the book: *Dirty Electricity* by Donna Fisher.
See: http://www.milieuziektes.nl/Pagina8.html
Especially interesting for women.
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Ann
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# Posted: 19 Aug 2012 15:40
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Thanks Charles.
I have to say that I found the products from EMfields reliable. Electrocloth, Chromax and their detectors. It is a pity they no longer sell the bog standard cheap electrosmog detector - the one with the chrome circular front, but then no one else does either. I thought that was the easiest one to use.
As we are on the subject can someone please explain to me why one detector indicates the presence of microwaves and the other does not?
For example:
When I place the chrome detector in front of my radio - an old one I had for years - there is no noise, but if I put the ME3030B detector it makes a noise and goes off the scale. I am not aware of being particularly affected by my radio. Similarly with a bed-side light.
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Ann
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# Posted: 19 Aug 2012 15:45
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Also I don't understand the units of the ME3030B.
It has a range 16 to 2000Hz but on the display it has V/m (for Electicity) or nT (for microwaves.)
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Volker
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2012 09:07
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@Ann,
nT stands for magnetic flux density (unidimensional): 1 - 1999 nT
V/m = Electric field strength: 1 - 1999 V/m
The ME3030B is a low frequency analyser. Of course it makes a noise and goes off the scale when you place it in front of your radio.
The Electrosmog Detector on the other hand does not detect the extremely low frequency (ELF) emissions related to household/building wiring, overhead/underground powerlines and all electrical appliances!
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charles
Member
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2012 23:46
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Hello Ann,
the ME3030 was the first meter I bought 13 years ago.
But it only measures electrical fields and magnetical fields.
For the electrical fields, one has to mount the cable to a ground, and the magnetic sensor is only 1D. For measuring properly, one has to measure the X-axis, the Y-axis and the Z-axis. These values have to be raised to the power, and the results added together, and from the sum, the root must be drawn.
The ME3030 cannot measure high frequency fields, the electromagnetic fields. Here the electrical and the magnetical components are entwingled, so it suffice to measure only the electrical component.
The Electrosmog Detector was not good in my opinion, because it starts measuring only at a too high radiation level, giving a false idea of safety for electrosensitives.
I do have many meters, detectors and spectrumanalysers.
But my favourite, which I always have in my pocket, is the Esmog Spion.
It detects High- as well as Lowfrequency fields. And the big loudspeaker let you hear what is going on.
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Henrik
Admin
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2012 08:17
Reply
charles,
What's the sensitivity of the Esmog Spion?
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charles
Member
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2012 09:15
Reply
@Henrik.
I don't have a figure for that.
But I use the Esmog Spion generally without antenna (so only the built-in antenna).
To raise the sensitivity, there is a small 45 mm antenna, and a long telescope antenna is also in the meter. So everything is at hand in the housing.
I also have the Profi Spion, who has BNC plugs, and the antenna's for that you must carry separately.
Anyway, the Esmog Spion is much more sensitive than the Electrosmog Detector.
When I am at a house survey, the first thing I do, when I leave my car, is holding the Esmog Spion in the air, and I know instantly what is going on, and which signals are present.
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Volker
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2012 15:01
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@Charles
We are often asked if we also sell the Esmog Spion or the Electrosmog Detector apart from the Gigahrtz-Solutions meters. Well, the Electrosmog Detector has been out of production for some time and the Esmog Spion of Endotronic is, in my view, too expensive as it only serves as a first quick acoustic indicator.
Some years ago, the "Verband Baubiologie" (German Association of Building Biology) made a "meter comparison" under laboratory conditions. 13 of the most popular HF-broadband meters were analysed, inter alia, the
- Esmog-Spion (Endotronic)
- HFR-1 (ROM-Elektronik)
- HF-Digitmeter II (Endotronic)
- HF 35C (Gigahertz Solutions)
- EMR-300, Sonde 18 (Narda) etc.
The test signals were the D-Netz GSM-900 / BCCH / 944,8 MHz Puls 1733 z
2. E-Netz GSM1800 / BCCH / 1825,5 MHz Puls 1733 Hz
3. UMTS / FDD / 2159,8 MHz
4. Radar 1340 MHz, Intervall 3 s Puls 333 Hz
5. DECT / 1890 MHz Puls 100 Hz
6. WLAN / 2412 MHz Puls 10 Hz
Rohde&Schwarz, Anritsu, Hewlett-Packard and Advantes spectrum analysers served as reference.
Result: The Esmog Spion is not considered suitable as a meter. Both, the integrated and the supplied antenna have no directivity and the LED scale does not show the intensity range below 10 W/m2 and over 1000 W/m2.
When I am at a house survey, the first thing I do, when I leave my car, is holding the Esmog Spion in the air, and I know instantly what is going on, and which signals are present.
Charles, I do not doubt that you know what you are doing but such a Esmog Spion can never replace a meter.
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Henrik
Admin
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2012 19:46
Reply
Volker,
"the [Esmog Spion] LED scale does not show the intensity range below 10 W/m2"
seriously? 10 Watt/m2 ! ...are you positive it isn't 10 µW/m2 or 10 milliW/m2.
Not that I seriously doubt your information... but I somehow can't believe anyone would bother designing a indicator with a lower threshold above ICNIRP maximum! In that case the device is useless as a meter. But maybe the speaker function is useable to determine what modulations are going on.
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Volker
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# Posted: 23 Aug 2012 08:14
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@Henrik
Yes of course! It is 10 µW/m˛ and 1000 µW/m˛
Thank you!
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ME
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# Posted: 23 Aug 2012 20:19
Reply
@Volker
Re: Gigahertz-Solutions HF meters
I have the HFE35C [isotropic and log per antennae] and
HFW35C, I was interested to read on the yshield blog that the upper frequency detection range on the HFE35C has been extended from 2.5 GHz to 2.7 GHz.
Where can i find sound samples for the 4G LTE that is being introduced?
I can find sound files for 2G, 3G, DECT, wifi, TETRA but i cannot find then for 4G LTE.
What sounds will I hear on the two meters when the 4G is introduced here?
Thanks.
ME
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Ann
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# Posted: 23 Aug 2012 20:26
Reply
Thank you all!
As you can see I don't seat on the computer often so have missed your replies.
I assumed that the cheap electrosmog sufficed for most domestic gadgets as it did make a sound where I would have expected it to and also picked up one or two hotspots in the house that I did not expect.
The ME 3030picks up other signals and does not ones I would expect!
Volker, you must understand that 'I'm only a woman'! who, despite trying, physics has eluded me - quite good with biology though!
I thought it was low frequency that causes the electrosensitivity. The idea is that these meters pick up those waves that are found around wireless gadgets and electricity!
However!
Recently we have intalled a new broadband - wired as before- but with a different very well known company. Unfortunately when I seat on the computer after a while I get a headache, which I did not get before. The router etc. emmissions are picked up by the meter ME3030, but I did not expect to feel any different than I did before. I am limiting the use of the computer.
So is there a meter out there that simple people like me can use for most domestic uses? (That does not cost a fortune?)
I can understand units as Hz
Thank you!
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Henrik
Admin
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# Posted: 24 Aug 2012 01:08
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Ann,
I'd go for one of the Cornet meters. They are decently priced and quite accurate in my experience. Manufacturers page is here:
http://www.cornetmicro.com/
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Volker
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# Posted: 24 Aug 2012 09:41
Reply
@ME
http://www.gigahertz-solutions.com/en/Multimedia.html
- Sound examples for Audioanalysis - LTE-downlink
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charles
Member
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# Posted: 24 Aug 2012 18:44
Reply
I am in discussion with a company, that is in the process of manufacturing a meter, which can measure from 10MHz up to 10GHz.
For a price about € 150 appr.
I hope that in November more is known.
But what do you want?
The Esmog Spion is not a meter, but an excellant detector.
If you want exact figures, not even the meters by Gigahertz are exact. I have found great differences between their types, and published that.
But the question remains: What do you want?
If you get more than 200 µW/m˛, just ran away.
BTW. most people measure *Spitzenwert*, but with those values you cannot argue with authorities.
Authorities do measure RMS, which pruduces much lower values. And, they measure over 6 minutes time, and calculate then the average value.
So they measure the average over an average!
If you want exact data, one has to use a spectrumanalyser.
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