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Suella
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jul 2015 16:31
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Hi I am looking to move to Spain and find land possibly with others who suffer badly from electrosensitivity. My idea is to visit areas with less wi-fi than in the UK I hear in Olvera Andalusia that the masts came down and would like to look there and surrounding areas by the Sierra Nevada area Las Alpujarras, also check out the Beneficio community.
Thinking maybe to buy or rent some rustic land land place yurts or find already with log cabins.
If anyone is in a similar situation and would be interested in joining me to search suitable areas I am thinking to travel there and spend a month idelally in September to check the area out and see if there is opportunity to do so.
Alternatively I may reconsider Wales, I hear too that there is an area in Sweden without wi-fi if and a community for those suffering anyone knows about the possibilities there would be great to hear from you.
Additionally if anyone has done this before in Spain or is well informed on the area and if this can be achieved I would be very thankful for any advice you would be happy to share.
Many thanks,
Suella
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Arthur
Member
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# Posted: 31 Jul 2015 10:38 - Edited by: Arthur
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Hi, Suella,
I am Spanish myself, I would tell you:
-definitely possible and good idea
-look at cave-dwellings too, bought, rented, squated, even to buy cheap land with diggable rock, from Zaragoza down to Andalucia; it IS DOABLE, crazy as it may sound, I ve been looking at how it is done
-I wouldnt go to Beneficio unless you are very much like that kind of people; if mildly hippy, I would go to Granada and squat a cave asap, easily done as soon as you arrive
-check out ecovillages too
-check out buying cheap property in thousands of depopulating small villages
-check out depopulating provinces with poor cell-phone connection, namely Teruel and Soria; downside: mountains and cold, but plenty of glorious beautiful sun
I cant follow you this year unfortunately, as I have to stay where I am to save a bit, trying to survive under a canopy, but I d like to be in contact with you to exchange ideas and sympathy; dont worry about age, gender or language, I am trustworthy, responsible
leave a contact that you can erase later; pardon me I dont, I ve become wary of it due to things that happened to me
I do NOT have a cell-phone :)
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Suella
Member
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# Posted: 13 Aug 2015 16:58
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Hello Arthur,Sorry for the delay replying and thank you so much for the advice! really helpful.
Some questions.... quite a few I hope you don't mind.
Do you warn me away from Beneficio because it's druggy or are there other reasons? i'm not a druggy hippy! just curious as to why?
Do you know if you have to contribute to be a member of an eco village? I have chronic fatigue also so am a bit useless in that way.
Do you know if the off grid eco villagees have mobile phones/ wifi?
You mentioned digging / caves do caves keep wifi out?
Am I likely to find other people with ES in the cave squats?
Lastly do you know about olvera? apparently they took all the masts down there...
It is so hard trying to find any of this info on the web. I'm so grateful to hear from you.
What a crazy condition!it gets very frustrating would be great to stay in touch.
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Suella
Member
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# Posted: 13 Aug 2015 16:59
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Arthur
My email is suella.worth@gmail.com
Please let me know when you have noted it down so I can erase it.
Thanks,
Suella
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Javier
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 02:40
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Some years ago I spoke on the phone with the (then) President of the Swedish Association of Electrosensitives, who was living in Spain because he said was cleaner than Sweden concerning radiation, power lines, etc.
He will surely know a lot about Spain in this sense.
Try to find him or call here. http://www.feb.se/FEB/feb_info.html
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Arthur
Member
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 14:31
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>>Hello Arthur,Sorry for the delay replying and thank you so much for the advice! really helpful.
Hi, found your reply today. No problem.
>Do you warn me away from Beneficio because it's druggy or are there other reasons? i'm not a druggy hippy! just curious as to why?
Yes, that sort of idea. I haven`t been in Beneficio, but I have met several individuals who have, and visited a somewhat related ecovillage. If you are not like them I think it would be uncomfortable over time, and I dont think they have any awareness of EMR or sympathy for ES. Also I believe is a rather chaotic place, not sure if you can take it or contrarywise, enjoy it.
In the hippy ecovillage I visited they had made a point to have internet connection and there was addiction to laptops and cellphones. When they saw me without them they interpreted as poverty or technoanxiety, made fun of me and hurt me. Actually I am a graduated in information science who saw the advent of internet when many of them were kids, was heavy user in the past, so they hurt me.
However it is true that these places are way better than a city or town as to EMR. It is still a possibility if you find nothing else.
>>Do you know if you have to contribute to be a member of an eco village? I have chronic fatigue also so am a bit useless in that way.
I am not the greatest expert, but I would say in most yes of course, people do work, let alone if the ecovillage is being established, then work and organization effort is insane; you would be interested of course in an established one
There are two I heard of that could be a possibility, I need to do some research, make another post with it later. One was really interesting because it was prebuilt little houses, and all they asked was you join a cooperative paying 150 euros a month I seem to remember, only those who want would work at the vegetable garden. Tell you about it later, no sure there are still vacant cabins, it was in Extremadura.
>>Do you know if the off grid eco villagees have mobile phones/ wifi?
I believe some 70% do. Wifi not so much. I only read about one ecovillage in France that were EMR aware and sympathetic. But overall exposure is vastly less that in ordinary society I bet. You have to go case by case and ask.
>>You mentioned digging / caves do caves keep wifi out?
Oh definitely. There is no greater protection from EMR than a cave. They are wonderful, wonderful. All advantages. The moment you have a thick mass of stone and are somewhere away from masts, you are clean, thats certain.
>Am I likely to find other people with ES in the cave squats?
I dont believe so, precisely because people who sleep in caves are very protected. I only know of cave squatters of Granada. You have to be aware that it is a very lowly lifestile, most without electricity or water, but it was interesting for me to meet these people. If one is very desperate because of ES I figure it could be a possibility.
>>Lastly do you know about olvera? apparently they took all the masts down there...It is so hard trying to find any of this info on the web. I'm so grateful to hear from you.
No, sorry, didnt here about Olvera, I will search in Spanish later, if you dont read Spanish you might have lost something published. Talk to you later about this too.
>>What a crazy condition!it gets very frustrating would be great to stay in touch.
Yeah, exactly. Count on me, even when only to exchange ideas :)
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Arthur
Member
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# Posted: 18 Aug 2015 18:23
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About Olvera, little town in Cadiz, I must know now the same as you. I ve been unable to find something from 2015 to see if they have kept the commitment going, I suppose they have.
Seems like a small town, a British community included, population goes down every year so probably home prices are low.
However I am skeptic it is an EMR-free paradise. The smart meters roll-out in Spain is on-going at the moment, and although I understand it is that technology whereby data goes through the wiring, not as bad as in US as EMR, I suppose there are many issues like dirty electricity increasing, or God knows. Also wifi penetration in homes is very high already and in Castilian and Andalusian towns homes are very close together, so I suppose you would have wifi penetration. No masts is good and a funny town, but is only part of the story.
A person the other day trying to steal wifi from his computer at home told me when people pass by in the street at high hours he was detecting some 80 signals, more than usual ... seem to me he was fried just living there, he is a mental disabled... so therapeutical...
I cant find the little cooperative in the countryside in Extremadura I read about in a forum: they were looking for people, I liked the fact that there was no ideology of any kind, you just entered the cooperative to pay the little alternative houses by paying 150 e a month, no work or anything else needed, going to a not too far away town for shopping; it seemed to me ideal for an ES who have a pension or something; I dont think was a scam or a joke
will try to find it tomorrow, but probably by now they have all the people
obviously, it all depends on the money you have at your disposal; prices keep plumeting insanely, by now we are at 50% less than at peak of the bubble in 2006, and will keep coming down, it is not bad to wait a little more
I ve lived the experience of beeing offered a house (old and needing repairs) entirely for free, given away, but in a city with masts close, so I refused! But it is fact: some homes are beginning to be worth nothing. Therefore there must be something in some remote area you can afford I guess, the things is trying and trying to find it.
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Arthur
Member
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# Posted: 19 Aug 2015 11:30 - Edited by: Arthur
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One more thing, what you said about buying rustic land and placing yurtas or something similar. It is interesting and you need to be aware on which legal ground you are moving.
My understanding so far is as follows: you are right there are two kinds of lands in Spain: urban and rustic, which means, on the first homes can be built, they are more expensive and you have a right to sanitation, garbage collection and other services, taxes are different; on the second, in theory you cannot built anything, they are not intended to live on, but for farming.
Now, what happens if you build some cabin or place a yurta, big tent, etc. on a piece of rustic land you bought. My understanding is: if it is something rather sophisticated and... "solid", you may or may not be in trouble with local authorities. You may know of this because of compatriots who bought some kind of these "illegal" properties. Now this amazingly happens: depending on who is in the council they may overlook it and time passes by and nothing happens, or in other places they take down the building saying it is illegal building, it has not a "habitability permit";
it is kind of a luck thing, so asking locals first to sense the mood is advisable, or researching it somehow. The situation in different autonomous regions or particular areas appears to be vastly different. At any rate, the more sophisticated the building is, the more risky the situation is.
But: yurtas, tents, recreational vehicles, little mobile homes, just placed there, with no sanitation, pipes, electric connection or anything, just a compost toilet, etc, better if it is discreet and tentative-looking, I dont believe anybody ever would tell you anything, if someone shows up, you can say that it is temporary. If it is a remote place probably nobody even would notice.
So my conclusion is that is possible. You would need something with a water source in there or maybe a fountain not far away. I believe there is something find-able in the area of as little as 4000 euros.
All this talk is rather crazy, but ES is crazy. What I said about digging a cave was as an extreme crazy possibility, few people would look into that, it is just a curious thing to me. Obviously things are easier if you are still in good shape, simply are EMR-aware and mildly ES as in my case, therefore able to work or live under extreme conditions, than if you are severely ES, therefore disabled and unable to work...., but be aware that as soon as you go away from the radiation you should improve.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 15 May 2016 00:41
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This is really helpful for me too! Thank you Arthur and Suella! I am thinking about trying to move away or at least take a break from EMR as well. I realize it's been a while since you had this conversation. Are you still checking this site? Have you found a place in Spain Suella?
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 15 May 2016 00:42
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I didn't mean for it (the previous posting)to be anonymous. My name is Ila.
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Arthur
Member
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# Posted: 15 May 2016 20:11 - Edited by: Arthur
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Hi, Ila
I check routinely this site every now and then, and I saw this. i had forgotten about this thread. Swella mailed me once she told me something about some opportinutiy in Uk countryside so dont know whether she did some exploration in Spain or not at the end.
I've seen something somewhere about starting ecovillages in the Alpujarras, there must be many Little place in the spurs of mountains.
One thought more of mine is that dry sunny places are interesting in terms of EMR in one respect: the mold. You know that EMR makes mold grow 3 times more, and if you listened and observe carefully, people are getting sick indeed because of mold too. I think I am rather mold-sensitive now, due to some exposure I had... UK sounds to me worse than Spain: flat, humid, with more EMR-"blanketing" plans one hear about...
If you ever come exploring and a trustworthy Spanish-speaking man by your side is of any use let me know in case I may want to pile in! Greetings
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Arthur
Member
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# Posted: 17 May 2016 20:32
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This site can be useful when checking ecovillages.
http://rie.ecovillage.org/en
Definitely some pensioners sometimes join, contribute in some way, monetary or some easy task like minding children, no need for tough work, and that could be doable by an electrosensitive with chronic fatigure. I reread above and realized had answered that one wrong. :) Regards,
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adz
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2017 17:00
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Wondering if this thread is still active? I am moving to Spain, but the place I bought wants to change the analogue meters to smart meters. Arthur do you know if there is an anti smart meter movement in Spain?
Thanks
A
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rachelh
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# Posted: 31 Aug 2020 19:14
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Has anyone brought land or found anywhere as i would be really interested - thanks - rhinks123@btinternet.com
am in urgent need to find a place right now
thank you
rachel
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Arthur2
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2021 19:19
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Hi years later I am the same Arthur as above
I wanted to tell you that during this time I ve seen examples of small homes, mobile homes, etc on rustic land and everything I said above turns out to be correct. There is not problem and some people are selling land knowing that buyers may have the motivation of placing there some sort of recreational dwelling contraption, let's call it like that
but I wanted to ask you about caves, to make a small poll if you like;
I've talked to a gentleman who offers some 20 caves in some isolated Granada village to anyone who is able to make them habitable and with that they pay 5 years stay, in other words, they are virtually for free; I ask him where to stay while working the first month or so, he said he's got some sort of "cortijo" for people
the caves dont have "papers" other than those of this man ownership of the land, but the council is aware and ok with it, it is common in other places, I believe him
he would like some sort of vague touristic project or something done instead of the caves "caving in", he doesnt know about electrosensitivity but that would be ok with him
i've wondered many times whether I could be of service organizing some sort of village or cave dwelling place for ESs, I wonder if perhaps this is the time, perhaps society is gone too far by now...
the work to be done would be finishing digging and nicing things up, if I may coin a word; dont worry you dont need to be a builder or DIY expert, some local cave-builder from the old times are available in the area for advice and supervision
I am not yet totally into it, still checking ordinary villages, but I may travel to the place later
I am just curious if someone exist out there open to such eccentric possibility: If you drop me a line with a nickname, where you are from as way of presentation, then just state that you are interested about such a project
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Henrik
Admin
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# Posted: 9 Oct 2021 12:05
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Arthur2,
This article is possibly of interest:
"Looking for a Place with no Wifi? Discover 40+ EMF and WiFi Free Zones"
https://atmosure.com/blogs/stories/emf-and-wifi-free-zones
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Overit
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2021 16:48
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Arthu 2
Yes Interested and since becomming severe I know there will be a need . I have been imprisoned with daily tourture since December a year or so after trial rollout in my city. I was a heavy user with 3 g 15 years ago , now very sensitive chemical , mold and severe ES .
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kara
Member
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# Posted: 13 Mar 2022 14:12
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interested in caves, land, homes, farms, flexible also with location/country (in Europe), could purchase (or rent) something, and would be happy also to live with other ehs. Please email me leigh.yz6@gmail.com. Spain sounds like a good option, but open also to different possibilities.
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