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Helpful
# Posted: 29 Jan 2007 13:54
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err, yes... possibly! I must get around to it...

Anyhow, two little points today:

1) Looks like someone managed to persuade a Jersey doubter here : http://www.freejersey.org/?q=node/97
I wonder who could have written all that? ;o)

2) Having just read one of the news stories here about masts on council property, I though I'd point out there are at least 3 JT pico-panels I've noticed inside Fort Regent (these are some of the ones that don't appear on lists because they didn't need planning permission). There's one inside the Queen's Hall (rotunda) and the other outside on the other side of the wall, and one more further down the Gloucester Hall on the west side. All have the familiar little warning signs.. which brings up a third point today...

3) Why don't the Sure C&W sites have the warning signs?

more
# Posted: 29 Jan 2007 14:59
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A new JT application, somewhere in the lanes SE of the airport :

Application Reference S/2007/0130
Address Jersey Hockey Club, La Rue des Sauvalleries, St. Peter
Application Date 26/01/2007 00:00:00
Status Pending Decision
Applicant Jersey Telecom, P O Box 53, 2nd Floor Channel Hse, St Helier JE2 4UH
Description Installation of 1 No. wooden clad replica telegraph pole, 6 No. antenna and 2 No. equipment cabinets.
- seems very close to an existing Rue des Vignes mast, but where exactly is it? http://www.jerseyhc.com/History/history.html says "the clubhouse at St Peter has been leased to the Jersey Wanderers Football Club". Picture of clubhouse : http://www.bbc.co.uk/jersey/content/articles/2004/07/12/football_jerse y_wanderers_div1_club_feature.shtml - but I still can't place it in La Rue des Sauvalleries! Why can't Planning give us lat/long coordinates... or... (see rant at the end here...)

and 3 new Airtel applications :

Application Reference S/2007/0134
Address Field 646, La Rue du Cerf, St. John
Application Date 26/01/2007 00:00:00
Applicant Jersey Airtel Limited, 2nd Floor, Le Masurier House, St Helier JE2 4YA
Description Installation of 1 No. wooden clad replica telegraph pole, 1 No. dish, 3 No. antennae and 3 No. equipment cabinets.
- phone book map 2 J2, en-route to Le Mare Vinyards, just off the main rd from St.John's Village.

Application Reference S/2007/0145
Address Field 384, Le Mont de la Greve de Lecq, St. Ouen
Applicant Mr S. Jolly, 2nd Floor, Le Masurier House, St Helier JE2 4YA
Description Installation of 1 no. wooden clad replica telegraph pole, 2 no. antenna & 3 no. equipment cabinets.
- hillside at western road down to Greve de Lecq

Application Reference S/2007/0135
Address Roches Douvres, Le Chemin du Guet, Trinity
Applicant Jersey Airtel Limited, 2nd Floor, Le Masurier House, St Helier JE2 4YA
Description Installation of 1 No. wooden replica telegraph pole, 2 No. antennae and 3 No. equipment cabinets.
- phone book map 5 A3, although it doesn't show Chemin du Guet (isn't our planning information wonderfully vague?!) but it's the lane up behind Rozel quayside (to NW), up to the hairpin bend. It then becomes Rue du Catel. Frankly I wouldn't welcome a mast there, it's going to spoil the great view as you come down this lane from the White Rock end. If the other two can deal with Rozel from the pier toilets and sites higher inland (near La Tourelle and by the old kennels place near the campsite) then why can't Airtel?

Why did we taxpayers fork out thousands for a precise digital map of the island, (as sold to private companies by their busines partner Digimap http://www.digimap.je/node/12 ) yet we don't get access to it? Planning applications that just say Field 27 for example - why can't we dial in field numbers and get a map on a webpage? Not too much to ask, is it?

more
# Posted: 29 Jan 2007 15:22
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WRITTEN QUESTION TO THE MINISTER FOR PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT
BY DEPUTY K.C. LEWIS OF ST. SAVIOUR
http://www.statesassembly.gov.je/documents/questions/2867-23122-161200 7.htm
".. would the Minister undertake to ensure that no mobile telephone masts and base units are sited less than 300 metres from any school or medical facility?"

".. In conclusion based on the currently available information I am satisfied that it would be unreasonable for me to impose exclusion zones for the mobile phone base stations in any circumstances if those base stations conform to the internationally recognised emissions limits."

-----

Transcript of the Public Meeting held at Hautlieu School
THURSDAY, 18th JANUARY 2007
http://www.scrutiny.gov.je/documents/pubhearings/10693-25427-2512007.h tm

----

Plenty of other evidence to be considered by the panel http://www.scrutiny.gov.je/show_programme.asp?reviewid=48

Helpful
# Posted: 29 Jan 2007 19:51
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letters in the JEP today

New masts? Why don't we just use the hardware that's already in place?
From Christopher Davey.
29/01/07

IT was five years ago that I was made aware that 'warm ear' was the consequence of talking too long on a mobile phone, and that the radiating micro-waves were doing long-term damage to my brain.

Since then every member of my family has had a strontium-ceramic magnetic disc stuck to their phone to divert these waves - and if anyone wants one of these I can guide them in the right direction.

These same micro-waves in the same frequency range are being emitted with much greater strength from masts. They are fairly harmless unless you are located for long periods within a couple of hundred yards of them.

Obviously some people are more sensitive than others, but the trick is to keep away from them - in the same way as one should not live in a property under a straddling array of high-tension cables.

Ergo, the numbers of these masts should be kept to a minimum, and be well elevated. There is not much science to this; it is just common sense.

For more than a decade now we have enjoyed a more than adequate Island mobile phone coverage with very few blind spots. Health considerations quite apart, to duplicate, or even triplicate, this array is just a crazy waste of resources. Let's make use of the JT hardware already in place - just as we do with land-lines.

La Robinette, Rue du Crocquet, St Brelade.

----

Comment : I think 'warm ear' could just as easily be because of the plastic phone against the ear for so long, I get that with a harmless landline! I don't believe some scammy protection disc is worth using, either.
BUT it's a good point about masts sharing. Is there any tech reason for not being able to take advantage of the States' ownership of JT to create a spin-off company that runs the existing masts as one network - and then JT/Sure/Airtel all pay to access it once it's in landline domain? It must be possible if UK residents can change gas/power suppliers without anything physically changing to their front door.

-----

Other things emit radio frequency radiation, too
From Bruce Willing.
29/01/07

THE telephone masts that transmit our calls and messages emit radio frequency (RF) radiation in the ultra-high frequency (UHF) part of the overall RF frequency spectrum. The maximum RF output of a telephone mast is 10 watts and it is directional towards a pre-designated area, hence the requirement to have lots of them.

The instruments in the landing system at the Airport, which guides in all aircraft approaching Jersey, gives out 100 watts. The RF output from small craft radar is about 1,500 watts, minimum, and most of them are within two metres of the helm's head.

The RF output of the BBC UHF TV transmitter at Les Platons is 20,000 watts. The RF output of the Airport radar on the north coast is 7,500 watts. Radio Jersey's transmitter emits 3,000 watts. These figures are all public.

All these outputs are in the same part of the RF spectrum as the mobile telephone system. No-one is complaining about receiving their TV signals, or about aircraft safety, or their TV, or Radio Jersey.

Just about the smallest emitter, closest to them that they can see (or thought of as closest to them) is the mobile phone mast.

People do not realise what else radiates within their houses at a similar or greater output - for example, the microwave, the TV remotes, cordless appliances, including telephones, hi-fi and electric cookers. Should we alert them about these as well?

Some people are sensitive to radiation. However, given the very low output of the mobile telephone masts, it is most unlikely to be caused by this tiny source of electronic radiation among the 'heavyweight' outputs listed above.

This method of communicating has been with us in Jersey for well over 50 years. It is not new. Perhaps the issue should be how to disguise the existence of the masts, and if this is impracticable, how they can be shared between service providers, so reducing the overall visual impact.

Gros Etacs, Grande Route des Sablons, Grouville.

----

Comments : Oh dear, where do I start?! Maybe tomorrow!

-----

It's a shame they didn't put the letter "Stop playing Russian roulette with our health" (Carole Bourke, 31 Clos de Mon Sejour) on the website too.

agnes
# Posted: 30 Jan 2007 02:25
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Dear Helpful
Please share your info on "strontium-ceramic magnetic disc"
I have never heard of it.
I am scared sh...... because All my (6 off) grandchildren, and their parents
all have mobiles, (It does not help much that these gadgets are banned from entering my house, they just think it makes me a funny old excentric)

So please share with me where these "strontium disc" can be bought.
(the kids will get a truly horiffic surprise for their birthdays, as Nan is on the warpath again. sigh,sigh)

Best regards.

Agnes.

P.S. come to think of it, Is´nt Strontium a very powerful poison made from waste from Nuclear powerplants?
http://www.epa.gov/superfund/resources/radiation/pdf/strontium.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strontium
http://www.ead.anl.gov/pub/doc/strontium.pdf

Gosh, gives you the creeps doesnt it!

Helpful
# Posted: 31 Jan 2007 18:09
Reply 


I don't believe a small disc of ANYTHING stuck to the mobile phone is going to have any significant effect in the near-field. It's a snake-oil scam, if you ask me! I'll need to see scientific test results before I'll believe THAT one.

----

More letters in the local paper today :

----

The truth is that every Islander's house is near a phone mast
From Alexis Marett. 31/01/07

I WOULD like to respond to the letters concerning mobile phone masts published in the JEP on 29 January.

Firstly, TV remote controls use infra-red which is a light wave and microwave ovens have their radio frequencies controlled by using a Faraday cage. comment - they *DO* leak though! Stand well back!!

Secondly, cordless telephones, Xbox 36s, PlayStation 3s, PSPs, Nintendo Wii, Nintendo DS, wireless access point routers (broadband routers), wireless enabled computers, remote central locking for your car, Bluetooth, remote-controlled toys - they all all emit radio signals. Most of these devices use more power than a mobile phone or its transmitter mast. comment - wrong! A phone mast transmits more power, but will usually be further away than an in-home plaything, which will probably give you a stronger field strength due to sheer proximity.

Carole Bourke wrote: 'It is madness putting base stations near schools or residential areas'. A simple reply is that these places are where they are most needed and used. There is less sense in putting up mobile phone transmitters in the middle of nowhere where demand for their use is much much less.

If people think that they can get away from using a mobile phone by using a payphone instead they would find that most payphone boxes have mobile phone transmitters inside the roof.

A couple of weeks ago there was a article in the JEP about the Scrutiny meeting on mobile phone masts. A comment was made in the meeting about 'a phone mast near my house would lower the value of the property'. You have to remember that there are lots of phone masts all over the Island. Everyone's house is near a mast. comment - by vastly differing degrees, perhaps! There's a big difference between 20m away, and 700m away!

2 Glenmore Flats, Tower Road, St Helier.

----

So, who can we sue when we become ill?
From S Heys. 31/01/07

I SEE that another expert advises that there is no risk from mobile phones or mobile phone masts. We all take risks in life, such as getting behind the wheel of a car, sitting in the sun, smoking and drinking, which is fine as long as this does not affect others.

When the States set up their website to let people know how low electro-magnetic fields are, as suggested by Michael Repacholi, could they please also include the name of the person I can sue when either I or my children become ill from the mobile phone mast that was erected in the field next to where we live without our permission?

La Ma”trerie, Rue de la Ma”trerie, St Martin

totem_pole
Member
# Posted: 31 Jan 2007 18:25
Reply 


some one should be looking into the proximity of these masts near to roadways as car engine control computers (ECU's) can be upset by strong continuosly pulsing signals
and could help explain some recent out of control car crashes or experiances,
sometimes the engine speed changes dramatically or brakes wont work

Anonymous
# Posted: 8 Feb 2007 13:26
Reply 


There's a lot to read in the submissions to the Scutiny Panel (on their website), including transcripts of various meetings. Here are some snippets I noticed from the meeting with JT
( http://www.scrutiny.gov.je/documents/pubhearings/47206-43230-122007.ht m )

Regarding phone box sites : "The equipment we use is called a micro BTS (Base Transmitter Site), it has either a 2 or 4 watt output.." - they say that you couldn't get ICNIRP levels even if you sat on it, which is probably true but even so I wouldn't recommend it.

Macro sites work at full licensed power - Mr. T. Knights: "It is 32 dbW." - this works out to 1600W!

Mr. T. Knights: "Microwave is a particular range of frequencies. It is quite a high range of frequencies. I do not know off the top of my head what the actual spectrum range is but it is above 6 gigahertz. Certainly much higher than used by mobile."
- Oh dear, their own expert doesn't even know the definition of microwaves! To be fair it can be confusing as there are two definitions, in one they start at 1GHz (having a wavelength of 30cm and shorter) but another definition has them starting at 300MHz (1m wavelength). In either case, 6GHz is way too high and would leave 2.45GHz microwave ovens wrongly named. If someone's not even sure of that, it makes you wonder...!

Sulking!
# Posted: 20 Feb 2007 01:46
Reply 


Another on-topic comment deleted?!
I'm finding it hard to consider carrying on here!!!

Henrik
Admin
# Posted: 21 Feb 2007 09:46
Reply 


Dear Sulking!,

I'm really sorry but that's what happens when someone (me) is trying to keep a bulletin board completely open -and- spam free, and has limited time to do so. Since you often post with new and inventive names it makes it really hard for me to spot the ham from the spam.
To stay friends, how about this: I'll make sure that my cleanup scripts don't delete any posts from your IP ...ok ? :-)

Regards
- Henrik

NotSulkingNow
# Posted: 21 Feb 2007 11:41
Reply 


ok thanks :o)

Rosie
# Posted: 22 Feb 2007 22:10
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Following his presentation to Parliament this week on "Combating the dangers to health of wireless technology, Mobile phone masts, mobile phones, WiFi, etc."

Dr George L Carlo of the Science and Public Policy Institute in Washington will be presenting to Scrutiny Panel which can be attended by members of the public.

Time: 7.30pm
Date: Monday 26th February
Venue: St Paul's Centre, St Helier

We welcome members of the public to learn about Electromagnetic Radiation and the effects on the health of Islanders, in particular children and young people.

Appalled
# Posted: 24 Feb 2007 20:16
Reply 


I've seen some new Airtel 'telegraph poles' today, and my word they're ugly.. worse than the Sure ones. The top third/quarter(?) is thicker than the rest and I find that purely visually there's an air of menace about them. They dominate the area - check the one at Grouville among the glass houses near where the inner road from the church meets the coast road. Who on earth thought these monstrosities were a good idea all over the island?!

agnes
# Posted: 25 Feb 2007 05:25
Reply 


Dear Apalled!
Your State senators and planning think its fine (I guess state economy, sh... the citizenz health concerns)
Your scrutiny is between pest and colera, but I guess, as they are mostly state anyway they will also find it fine, even if its ugly.

And Rosie.
Dr. Carlo is our HOPE! for you in Jersey and All of Us!
We already have Limerick in Ireland who reject beeing Lab-Rats!

If he (Carlo) can get scrutiny to see it his way, you will be fine, if not you will be like the rest of the UK "down the shute" and moving home whether you want to or not.
This is ALL about how much your Voted politicians Really Care for their Constituants health and fears.
If you ask me, my experience says: They do not care, unless its voting time, and they Need Your Vote.
This is only about Them, (politicians) and their future, Not Us and Our future, health and wellbeing.
So please hold them LIABLE for what harm they are prepared to inflict on you for CASH!!
Best regards.
Agnes.

P.S. Helful:
How come you can never make it to any of the events????

rosie
# Posted: 25 Feb 2007 20:33
Reply 


This is a snipet of one of the transcripts from the http://www.scrutiny.gov.je/

HSSH Scrutiny Sub-Panel - Telephone Masts Review

Evening Meeting

FRIDAY, 19th JANUARY 2007


Ms. C. Coote:

In March, we campaigned at St. Brelade for the Fire Station not to have a mobile phone base station put up there and we arranged a public meeting and at that public meeting, we had Jersey Telecom, somebody representing them - there was about 3 of them with their lawyers - and also Cable & Wireless, and they were all there. A question was asked directly to Jersey Telecom, because Jersey Telecom had their mobile phone mast in situ at the time. Planning had no idea where Jersey Telecom’s masts were, and that is 100 per cent true. The question was asked direct to Mr. Ringsdore, who is a director of Jersey Telecom; he was asked how many mobile phone masts he had currently in Jersey. He said over 100. I said: “Is that 190 or is that 110? Tell me” and he said approximately 110. So that is your statement before the Planning Department. You have stated that Jersey Telecom has - I think he said - 56. I am not directing my comments, I am just ‑‑



Deputy A. Breckon:

Yes, that was applications, not masts. That was applications.



Ms. C. Coote:

Yes, but what concerns me is that we keep referring to the Stewart Report and we want to use the Stewart Report, but one of the big recommendations in the Stewart Report is we should know, and there should be a website that identifies every single place of a mobile phone mast; wherever, it should be there. Any member of the public should know exactly where it is. There is one in Les Creux Park, which is in the car park, and is just a stick. That is there. It is not even listed on your website. That is just one I know about, but I know there is a lot more out there, and this lady here, she has great concerns, because she is living right next door to one, and you were asking about clusters. I can tell you now, there is only one cluster, and that is Jersey as a whole. [Applause] Oh, sorry, my name is Caroline Coote.

rosie
# Posted: 25 Feb 2007 20:35
Reply 


Helpful, can you really provide a list of all masts near Schools.

It is a shame it could not get published before the meeting tomorrow, but might be useful.

Everyone need to get there tomorrow night, I think everyone assumes the powers that be will put health before money, but does not seem that way.

Helpful
# Posted: 26 Feb 2007 13:33
Reply 


I applaud the JMMCG paying out of their own pockets for Dr Carlo to come over, but I suspect it may be a wasted effort. I heard our dear head of the scrutiny panel on 103fm again this morning, and yet again it sounds like he's made up his mind already that masts are perfectly safe and the poor old confused public just need reassurance. The whole scrutiny panel exercise has been a PR stunt.

Yet surely they must admit that, as is already stated on the States webpage itself, there IS STILL enough doubt and cause for concern, that a precautionary approach should still be taken. I cannot therefore see how they can be approving new sites quite so close to housing!

--

Masts by schools and play areas - the main culprits :

JT St. John's Parish Hall, right by the school
JT Les Creux, not so far from La Moye school
JT Coronation Park, phone box transmitter by the playground
JT - other phone box transmitters by beaches : Havre des Pas, Bel Royal, Green Rd slipway, La Rocque, etc
JT Parade Gardens - phone box transmitter right opposite maternity ward

CW JEC Powerhouse near Haut Vallee School
CW La Rue du Bocage, line of sight to Mont Nicolle primary school.

Airtel - First Tower school - application for site on adjacent building

And the St.Lawrence school one we all know about.

Of course there are many Airtel applications where I've no idea precisely where the sites will be, because I don't have a map here detailed enough to show field numbers - and there isn't such a facility online. Perhaps Planning could consider something...

Appalled
# Posted: 26 Feb 2007 19:42
Reply 


The comment that got accidentally deleted was about a shared site at First Tower / St.Andrews at the ESM building. This is relatively high power site in a densely populated area, and the antennas (both JT and Sure) are fairly low down amongst other buildings that are VERY close by. They blast almost directly into housing a mere stones throw away at worrysome signal levels.

As I said, I wouldn't want to be living there, I'd be selling up or moving out as soon as possible!

Rosie
# Posted: 27 Feb 2007 22:37
Reply 


Dear Helpful, were you there last night? Dr Carlo was excellent. I don't think we are going to change things over night, but if we all work together there is a real glimmer of hope we will get Jersey on the right track.

Appalled were you there??

Dr Carlo did some great work and has offered to come back and help us.

I think there is fresh hope.

Shame the telcos or health did not make an appearance.

Rosie
# Posted: 27 Feb 2007 22:39
Reply 


If you did not make it please look out for his transcript on scrutiny website. He has also offered to help us create a safewireless initiative in Jersey.

We need help so if anyone is up for it, please step forward! :-)

Helpful
# Posted: 28 Feb 2007 11:55
Reply 


I'd rather not say whether I was there or not - to keep them guessing about who I am! (sorry!) He did present himself well on Channel Report too, didn't he?

What sort of help do you require, it sounds like something I could happily put myself out for...? Maybe it's time I emailed you :o)

SomethingToRead
# Posted: 28 Feb 2007 12:16
Reply 


more comments have been added at http://www.bbc.co.uk/jersey/content/articles/2007/01/24/mobile_phone_m asts_feature.shtml
although it's hard to reach the page through their ever-changing menus

Helpful
# Posted: 2 Mar 2007 16:02
Reply 


Two new applications today, 1 JT and 1 Airtel :

Application Reference S/2007/0483
Address Western End of Airport Runway, Jersey Airport, St. Peter
Application Date 02/03/2007
Status Pending Decision
Applicant Mr Tim Knights, PO Box 53, Grenville Street JE4 8PB
Description Installation of 3 no cabinets, 1 no lattice mast and 2 no antennas.

Hard to believe they need one there - in the area visible to this one JT have got the Atlantic Hotel overlooking the bay, one at the Golf Club, two yellow phone boxes microcells (Les Brayes and Big Verns), one mast in the inland lane La Rue De La Mare, plus the "Milano pumping station", and the airport radar site (Jubilee Hill) is also visible along most of the bay. Maybe they're replacing some of the other sites? I doubt the golf club site would be needed any more, if there's one beaming down nearby from above at the end of the runway. Maybe the rent is cheaper?

Application Reference S/2007/0481
Address National Grid Wireless Site, La Rue des Platons, Trinity
Application Date 02/03/2007
Status Pending Decision
Applicant Jersey Airtel, 2nd Floor, St. Helier JE2 4YA
Description Installation of 3 no antenna, 7 no dishes and 4 no cabinets

fair enough - JT and Sure are both there already

Appalled
# Posted: 5 Mar 2007 12:47
Reply 


This weekend I finally noticed where the one at the top of Grouville Hill is going to be, as the foundations are being put in. It's about here
http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=49.180888&lon=-2.062694&z=16.5&r=0&src= 0

It's going to be a bit of an eyesore, isn't it? Especially if it's like the other Grouville one, thick at the top with the Devil's toasting fork at the tip!

It's not as close to the housing as I suspected, so bonus points to them for at least trying to get some distance there. But given that the mast base is lower down the field, and given the beam downtilt, I suspect there will still be a rather strong signal for local residents. We shall see.

The 'Sunday Roast' on C103 was interesting, how many times did they repeat the same bit of Dr Carlo?!

agnes
# Posted: 6 Mar 2007 02:52
Reply 


Dear Apalled.
Can you send me a lin to "The Sunday Roast"?
I would put it into "Resources"

If you can please do.
We Need to beat this, we Need to get some spaceand consideration for us humans as well as the cash and technology.

After all, come to think of it.
Who Pays The Taxes And Rates?
Who Keeps The Council?
Gues who.
Not them.
Best regards.
gnes

Appalled
# Posted: 6 Mar 2007 13:44
Reply 


It was a radio show on Sunday, so there's no link I'm afraid.
all the best

Helpful
# Posted: 7 Mar 2007 14:38
Reply 


JEP today: The scrutiny panel will not accept any more submissions now, and their report may take up to 4 weeks to complete.

Helpful
# Posted: 7 Mar 2007 19:29
Reply 


Reported here too http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/jersey/6428035.stm

We all know what the verdict will be!

agnes
# Posted: 8 Mar 2007 02:30
Reply 


Hi all
We have just added a new link in our Link section.
This is a website in Jersey which sells products to detect Microwave Radiation and so protect against electro sensitivity and protect homes and offices.

Here is the link: http://mast-victims.org/index.php?content=links#protection

Best regards.
Agnes

Helpful
# Posted: 8 Mar 2007 12:05
Reply 


Thanks - can http://www.jerseymastconcern.co.uk/ go on your links page too? ta

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