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Anonymous
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# Posted: 23 Apr 2009 18:25
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Hi all. I wonder if you can help me, please. We moved into a new house about 6 months ago and, as I have a 3 year old daughter who may be genetically more susceptible than most to developing certain tumours (family history etc) , I checked the ofcom sitefinder tool when househunting to make sure that we were far away from masts. This ruled out many a house, I can tell you, particularly as I wanted to be away from traffix fumes and pesticides too!
However, I recently bought an electrosmog detector and the results were not what I expected. It buzzes reasonably loudly in pockets around the house. The downstairs is fairly quiet save for a few very low level pockets, so that doesn't worry me too much. The upstairs is worse. There is a 37.5m high mast on top of a large hill about 900m away. It has two antenna - details as follows: (1) 1800MHz, GSM 19-32 dBW and (2) 900MHz, GSM 19-32 dBW. There is a clear sightline from this to our house as we are down below it. I have moved my daughter's bedroom to the other side of the house, where it is very quiet on the electrosmog detector. But the bedrooms where my husband I sleep and work (and of course my daughter plays there sometimes) do have some loud pockets. The garden also has some loudish patches - by which I mean not top volume as if standing under a mast but clearly audible, not a feint whine.
Can anyone advise me how serious this is likely to be? I am thinking about trying to put up some screening lining paper on the internal walls which face the mast but am not sure how sensitive the elctrosmog detector is and whether I am getting this out of control? In my more panicky moments I even consider moving house again but as that is disruptive for all of us, it's only something to do if this is a serious problem which can't be rectified. We are not ES and have experience no obvious symptoms from the monitor buzzing!
Thanks for any help.
Han
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Henrik
Admin
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2009 11:13
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Hi Han,
The electrosmog detector sensitivity is 0.05 V/m which corresponds to 6.6
microWatts/m2.
Is your house close to other houses where there might be wireless equipment installed? Your house is far away from the mast so consider whether the "radiation pockets" in your house could be caused by other wireless equipment nearby (neighbors wifi etc.). The various wireless technologies "sound" different on the electrosmog detector. This is due to the different "modulations" that they use to encode information into the carrier wave. You can find examples of those sounds here:
http://www.emfields.org/equipment/mw1.asp
(see the "Example sound files" box at the bottom of the page)
Regarding health symptoms: as a reference, I recommend that you take a look at the 2005 Bamberg study, done by German medical doctors, where they correlated signal-intensity with health symptoms. It provides a good picture of what biologial effects to expect at different intensities. Powerwatch has a short article about Bamberg here:
http://www.powerwatch.org.uk/News/20050722_bamberg.asp
If you scroll past the yellow text box you will find 4 graphs. Those are
the intensity/symptom graphs. Underneath those you will find
explanations of the symptom group bars.
You can increase the sensitivity of the acousticom to 0.03
V/m (= 2.3 microWatts/m2) with a very simple modification. See here:
http://www.emfields.org/equipment/mw1foil.asp
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2009 15:44
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Thanks very much Henrik. I do appreciate your time. I have listened to the sound files and the noise we pick up is definitely the GSM base station mast - the high pitched kind of whine. This also fits because the side of the house which faces the mast seems to be more affected in general.
The Bamberg article is useful but the problem with the electrosmog detector is that once the level has got past the 0.05V/m and registered as a feint noise, I can't tell how high the levels are - is there any data for how high the levels have to be for it to be buzzing loudly? Sorry - this probably doesn't make much sense - I am grappling with this without any technical knowledge! Would it be worth me hiring a Com meter and A-com instead as (if my very basic understanding is correct) they give readings as opposed to just noise? Would it be right to say that if the electromog detector is only picking up gsm base station noise and this doesn't register on the Com / A-Com, there are unlikely to health effects? Thanks again for any views and all your help.Han
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agnes
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# Posted: 26 Apr 2009 04:42
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Han.
Yes, it is worth hiring a Com meter and an A-com.
Just be aware that you have to find a very accurate spot for the Com meter.
When you find the exact spots where the radiation penetrates your walls (you have to kind of wave it about, and it will tell you by light signals when you are there) it will also tell you how much radiation comes through your wall, in 3 stages, Green, Radiation yes, but not at a dangerous level, Orange more radiation, worse, but not yet at a very dangerous level.
RED, that is a very different story alltogether: Means RADIATION AT A VERY DANGEROUS LEVEL! And you will find that by then, if you put the A-Com at the same spot it will scream its head off.
So, my advice to you is: Yes, it is worth renting the com´s, if nothing else than, if things are not to bad, then to put your mind at rest, but if you get Red and Screams, seriously consider moving house, And yes, I know All about the disruptions believe you me, especially when you do work at home.
I truly feel sorry for you, and hope things work out well.
(One thing also, how is it in your garden? Will your daughter be able to play outside?
Best regards.
Agnes
Rent
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Henrik
Admin
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# Posted: 26 Apr 2009 11:47
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Anonymous,
I'll have to correct Agnes about the COM monitor because it's sensitivity is far less than the A-Com and will be pretty useless in your situation.
The COM monitors sensitivity is 0.7 V/m (= 1299 microWatt/m2). Compare that to the 0.05 V/m threshold of the A-Com and you see what I mean. With the COM you have to hit the main beam straight on. In your case where the radiation is being reflected around and creating pockets in the house, the COM will be practically useless.
The A-Com is just a detector. It offers no way of determining the actual amount of microwave radiation, well, other than silent = good and noisy = bad :-)
If you need to know how much microwave radiation you are being exposed to you will need a calibrated instrument with a display.
What area are you in? Maybe we can find someone to help you with measuring?
Anyway, here are some ideas:
You can check with EMF-Surveys http://www.emf-surveys.com
Try checking with EMFields if you can rent a HF35 from them: http://www.emfields.org/equipment/hf35.asp
These instruments are not cheap but they are extremely sensitive and accurate. I splashed out on the HF35's big brother and I'm extremely happy with it.
See the entire range here:
http://www.gigahertz-solutions.com/en/Online-Shop/Measurement/High-Frequency/Instrume nts.html
Best,
Henrik
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 26 Apr 2009 20:02
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Thanks very much to you both. I am in Newmarket near Cambridge, UK, so I guess my best bet is EM Fields, although when I spoke to them they said they were too busy to do surveys. I will check again but if you know of anyone else who would be able to come along and take some readings and give me a bit of reassurance (hopefully!), that would be much appreciated. I have a feeling that otherwise I will end up splashing out on screening products which might not work. I am reluctant to think about moving house yet because even if I managed to find somewhere else which was quiet on the detector, there would be nothing to stop someone else moving next door with wifi or something, or another mast appearing up the road! Thanks again. Han
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captainboggles
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jun 2009 20:51
Reply
heyyy
anyone with cancer tendencies should be looking at vitamin B17 laetrile amygdalin before anything else.
google b17 look for 'world without cancer'
good luck
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cristiano
Member
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2009 08:34
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Hello there.The Bamberg article is useful but the problem with the electrosmog detector is that once the level has got past the 0.05V/m and registered as a feint noise, I can't tell how high the levels are - is there any data for how high the levels have to be for it to be buzzing loudly?Please help me!!!!!!!!
______________________
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Henrik
Admin
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2009 09:01
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cristiano,
Try contacting EMFields with your electrosmog detector question, here:
http://www.emfields.org/contact.asp
You can increase the sensitivity of the acousticom to 0.03
V/m (= 2.3 microWatts/m2) with a very simple modification. See here:
http://www.emfields.org/equipment/mw1foil.asp
If you need a device that shows accurate measurements then take a look at Gigahertz-Solutions. Not the cheapest, but it's the best gear. I've got one myself so I can recommend them:
http://www.gigahertz-solutions.com/en/Online-Shop/Measurement/High-Frequency/Instrume nts.html
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Volker
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2009 14:15
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cristiano
Hi cristiano,
If you are from Germany or Austria you can rent the EMR meter Henrik recommende at www.yshield.de
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Frances
Member
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2010 00:09
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I am in a simlar situation to Han. I thought the house I'd moved to was well away from mobile masts but it turns out there was a disguised mast 400+ metres away, which has since been upgraded so has even stronger signal.
Have hired an Acoustimeter which found average readings between 1 to 4 MW/m2 for the majority of the house but at the windows nearest mast sometmes readings of 50MW/m2 (and presumably the garden would have higher readings). I'm not sure how to interprete these readings - they seem to be 'good' by BioInitiative recommendations but bad by Salzburg standards. I am getting very anxious for children's health etc and am considering screening materials and/or moving. I have found my own sleep to be very poor since we have lived here and always wake feeling unrested. Any advice would be much appreciated.
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Henrik
Admin
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2010 16:49
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Frances,
The readings you listed, are they measured in milliWatts or microWatts /m2 ?
The difference is enormous. The highest reading you mention is equivalent to approx. 5 V/m, which is crazy for a mast that is 400+ metres away!
Have you considered that the main source of microwaves may be a Cordless phone or a Wifi router near by? (neighbor?)
Both Cordless phones and Wifi routers radiate constantly.
You mention you have a Acoustimeter. How does it sound when you are measuring the highest intensity fields? Different wireless technologies "pulse" in different ways, so the sound of the meter can actually tell you what kind of wireless tech. is getting picked up by the meter.
Try going to this page:
http://www.emfields.org/equipment/acoustimeter.asp
and listen to the example sound files there. Compare with the sound(s) you get with your meter. Please keep us updated!
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ES
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2010 17:34
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Frances,
Also did you note down the 'peak' readings on the 'electrosensitivity' scale on the Acoustimeter? That is the V/m scale on the meter.
I will assume that you mean an average of microwatts per square meter for now. I am electrosensitive and I feel uncomfortable at peak readings of less than 5 microwatts per square metre.
Inability to sleep, feeling unrefreshed, feeling fatigued, headaches, prickling skin. Yes effects of radiation that I know well.
Things got worse here after neighbour got DECT and wifi.
I measured a peak reading of 20,000 uW/m2 [microwatts per square metre] at 1 metre from a friend's DECT phone. [Gigahertz Solutions HFE35C]. You can get a lot coming in from the other side of the party- wall/ceiling/floor.
What is it?
Buzzing - DECT
tap,tap, tap, tap - wifi
masts sounds
As Henrik says go to the EMFields website.
Check walls, windows, check ceilings, check dangling wires for lights etc.
It is amazing how the levels can change within a short distance in a room.
It is useful to have the peak readings.
If you still have the meter then check readings on both scales - peak readings and average readings.
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ericgeneric
Member
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2010 21:39
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I would move the hell away from it, really. Although these masts are cropping up all the time so finding anywhere "safe" is getting impossible.
EG.
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Frances
Member
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# Posted: 21 Feb 2010 21:25
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Thank you for your comments and help with this. I hired the Acoustimeter from EMFields. I'm not sure if it is microwatts or milliwatts (it has a italicised (greek?) M but in the instructions scale it says Bioinitiave recommends 1000 and we are reading between 1 to 4 in most of the house and 50 - 146 at the windows (average readings). I will hire Acoustimeter again and check peak readings again etc - I wrote down some readings at the windows as being between 0.22 - 0.45 V/m. I will also check the sounds as suggested.
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Frances
Member
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# Posted: 21 Feb 2010 21:41
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Having looked at the EM Fields website - I realise that the readings are in microwatts - sorry for the confusion. Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated - it is really hard to know how to interprete the results - whether they are dangerous or not etc.
The readings definitely seemed to be related to the mast - increasing in intensity the nearer I got etc. Thanks again.
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ericgeneric
Member
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# Posted: 22 Feb 2010 00:49
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If a mast that far away is giving readings in and around your house, it suggests its strength is indeed strong. For all the screening materials and paint and other things to protect you inside, remember you are going to be living there...gardening, being outside, and travelling to and fro to the surrounding areas...shops, roads etc.
The mast is there, and to be sure of safety you need to be away from it completely. Easier said than done of course! We are in the same boat. There is no compromise with these things; they're not going to give you a day off, or become weaker when you need them to be. They just stand there, pumping out ever-stronger signals day and night to everywhere around them.
EG.
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ES
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# Posted: 22 Feb 2010 13:52
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Using calculator on the powerwatch website:
http://www.powerwatch.org.uk/science/unitconversion.asp
Peak values of
0.22 V/m = 128 microwatts per square metre peak value
0.45 V/m = 537 microwatts per square metre peak value
I am now electrosensitive. I could not live with those levels.
I cannot cope with 10 - 20 microwatts per square meter peak reading on my meter. Unfortunately, I just cannot afford to move away.
AS EG says, it is not easy to find places with no masts and no neighbours with DECT/wifi etc.
When you check again do so at different times of day and evening/night because it varies a lot.
What readings are you getting = where you sleep? - when in your favourite chair? - in the garden?
Perhaps, when you have the meter on hire again you might check a friend or relative's house for exposure levels. If they have a DECT phone or wifi ask them to unplug it.
I would take the continuing sleeping problems that you are having and the feeling of not having rested as a warning from your body. That sleep problem is often one of the initial symptoms people report. It does not improve with more exposures.
If you can move away from the phone mast to a lower radiation area I would. And, take a meter with you when checking houses, preferably.
If you cannot move then I would consider shielding.
But, preferably get away from the mast if you can.
Because, once you become electrosensitive there is NO cure.
Your life will never be the same.
ES
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ES
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# Posted: 22 Feb 2010 14:39
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P.S.
When I first realised that phone masts were causing headache and sleeping problems the measured peak level in my home was ~ 4000 - 5000 microwatts per square metre. I could not bear to be upstairs where the levels were much higher.
We installed new Pilkington P Windows [expensive] and have also got some shielding netting up at the bedroom windows. This greatly reduced the exposures at the time and the problem initially was reduced. In the meantime, new phone masts have been added, the power has been turned up. And then there are neighbours nearby with DECT/wifi. It penetrates outside walls. So, exposures through the walls and ceilings are increasing.
Oh to live in a dense forest well away from phone masts!
ES
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ES
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# Posted: 22 Feb 2010 20:21
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Typo in previous message
It should read:
We installed Pilkington K windows.
ES
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Frances
Member
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2010 12:20
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Thanks very much for all your feedback. I now have some extra readings:
Most of the house
Peak 0.14 V/m
Average: 1-2 microwatts per metre squared in most of house.
Garden
Peak 0.27 Vm
Average 10-20 microwatts/ per metre squared
Near windows upstairs (at mast height)
Peak 0.52 V/m
Average 36 microwatts/ per metre squared
This time (with a different Acoustimeter) levels seemed to be sightly lower (not sure if Acoustimeters can vary that much). In some ways, I am a little reassured in that we mostly have levels that are close to the Salzburg guidelines but levels are obviously higher than they would be if we lived away from the mast. Levels are very high the nearer you get to the mast (within 50 -100 metres the readings were averaging over 1000 microwatts/ metre squared). Some houses are sited within that range.
I would be interested to know:
a) How the Salzburg guidelines came to be drawn up - where did they get the figure of 1 microwatt/ mettre squared from - what medical evidence was it based on. I have tried Googling this but didn't find anything concrete.
b) If there is any point trying to campaign about the mast now it is in existence - do operators ever take them down etc due to local pressure? I know LAs have no power to oppose them on health grounds and presumably the mast operators get long term contracts etc. Apparently there were some petitions etc against it when it was first erected. I wondered if there was any scope in getting the mast raised so at least it wouldn't be level with people's bedrooms etc. Salzburg seems to be very good at the siting of masts/ heights etc.
Many thanks again for your help
F
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2010 23:04
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a) How the Salzburg guidelines came to be drawn up - where did they get the figure of 1 microwatt/ mettre squared from - what medical evidence was it based on. I have tried Googling this but didn't find anything concrete.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Look here
http://omega.twoday.net/20050115/
Then scroll about 2/3 of the way down the page and keep looking until uou find this paragraph.
"A recent health survey carried out in La Òora, Mucia, Spain, nearly two 900/1800Mhz mobile phone base stations showed statistically association between the measured electric field and a number of symptoms, especially depressive tendency, fatigue, sleeping disorder, difficulty in concentration and cardiovascular problems, and also loss of memory, visual disorder and dizziness. It confirms the findings of several earlier published studies. On the basis of this work, D. Oberfeld Gerd of the Public Health Department of Salzburg, Austria, is advising a reduction of exposure levels to no more than 1 microWatt/m². The current exposure limit set by the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (ICNIRP) Guidelines is 10 W/m², or 10 million times that recommended. "
ME
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2010 12:07
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Frances: See the Abstract below. The full paper is here as a PDF.
www.powerwatch.org.uk/pdfs/20040809_kos.pdf
THE MICROWAVE SYNDROME – FURTHER ASPECTS OF A SPANISH STUDY
Oberfeld Gerd1, Navarro A. Enrique3,
Portoles Manuel2, Maestu Ceferino4, Gomez-Perretta Claudio2
1) Public Health Department Salzburg, Austria
2) University Hospital La Fe, Valencia, Spain
3) Department of Applied Physics, University Valencia, Spain
4) Foundation European Bioelectromagnetism (FEB) Madrid, Spain
Adress Corresponding author: Dr. Gerd Oberfeld, Public Health Department Salzburg,
PO Box 527, 5010 Salzburg, Phone 0043 662 8042-2969, Fax 0043 66 8042-3056,
gerd.oberfeld@salzburg.gv.at
Abstract
A health survey was carried out in La Ñora, Murcia, Spain, in the vicinity of two GSM 900/1800 MHz cellular
phone base stations. The E-field (~ 400 MHz – 3 GHz) measured in the bedroom was divided in tertiles (0.02 – 0.04 / 0.05 – 0.22 / 0.25 – 1.29 V/m). Spectrum analysis revealed the main contribution and variation for the Efield from the GSM base station. The adjusted (sex, age, distance) logistic regression model showed statistically significant positive exposure-response associations between the E-field and the following variables: fatigue, irritability, headaches, nausea, loss of appetite, sleeping disorder, depressive tendency, feeling of discomfort, difficulty in concentration, loss of memory, visual disorder, dizziness and cardiovascular problems. The
inclusion of the distance, which might be a proxy for the sometimes raised "concerns explanation", did not alter the model substantially. These results support the first statistical analysis based on two groups (arithmetic mean 0.65 V/m versus 0.2 V/m) as well as the correlation coefficients between the E-field and the symptoms (Navarro et al, "The Microwave Syndrome: A preliminary Study in Spain", Electromagnetic Biology and Medicine, Volume 22, Issue 2, (2003): 161 – 169). Based on the data of this study the advice would be to strive for levels not higher than 0.02 V/m for the sum total, which is equal to a power density of 0.0001 W/cm² or 1 W/m², which is the indoor exposure value for GSM base stations proposed on empirical evidence by the Public Health Office of the Government of Salzburg in 2002.
ME
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ericgeneric
Member
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2010 03:33 - Edited by: ericgeneric
Reply
"The current exposure limit set by the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (ICNIRP) Guidelines is 10 W/m², or 10 million times that recommended. "
Yes, that's not a misprint. We're talking TEN MILLION TIMES MORE POWERFUL. And nobody thinks this is a bad idea? It beggars belief.
You expect greed and a great deal of dishonesty from governments. But this level of stupidity?!
EG.
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ES
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# Posted: 4 Mar 2010 22:58
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Frances,
The measurements can vary greatly from day to day and at different times of day.
The closer in vertical height that you are to the mast antennae the greater the exposure through the walls, windows, ceilings, roof.
You wrote that you were having problems with sleeping and not feeling rested. I would use that to guide you.
I suggest that you consider shielding those upstairs windows at mast height. Peak 0.52 V/m is equivalent to a peak reading of 717 microwatts per square metre.
If you are being affected then it is better to take action sooner than later.
ES
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Frances
Member
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2010 22:39
Reply
Thanks for all your advice - it is very useful to have some feedback on my concerns and I'm thinking through the various options - including screening. Just wanted to check if anyone had any thoughts on this question:
b) If there is any point trying to campaign about the mast now it is in existence - do operators ever take them down etc due to local pressure? I know LAs have no power to oppose them on health grounds and presumably the mast operators get long term contracts etc. Apparently there were some petitions etc against it when it was first erected. I wondered if there was any scope in getting the mast raised so at least it wouldn't be level with people's bedrooms etc. Salzburg seems to be very good at the siting of masts/ heights etc.
Thanks again,
F
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ericgeneric
Member
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2010 22:55 - Edited by: ericgeneric
Reply
Hi Frances, you can but try! There seems to be a complete barrier to any aspect of masts and adjusting/reducing/resiting them...the telecom firms and the government have managed to stop any dialogue at all on the subject, even if the masts were erected illegally or in spite of huge objections.
EG.
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guest
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# Posted: 23 Mar 2010 09:43
Reply
Hi guys,
I am really confused. I thought SwissShield fabrics are the best ones the market. Now I saw a canopy at Aaronia AG with incredible 50dB. They also offer other shielding materials up to 100 dB. Does anyone of you know this company. They have this graphic on their website comparing SwissShield Naturell and Aaronia. Does anyone know which one is better?
Thanks a lot.
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 24 Mar 2010 00:10
Reply
Hi Guest
The Aaronia website graph is showing more shielding with the Aaronia product compared t the Swiss Shield products that it is comparing against.
What I would like to know is 'How much do the products cost?'
The German Aaronia website has prices on the website
www.aaronia.de
Whereas the UK Aaronia website does not have prices.
www.aaronia.co.uk
You have to email them for information.
ME
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guest
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# Posted: 24 Mar 2010 10:32
Reply
Hello,
they have this fabric called high performance screening tissue/fabric
Aaronia-Shield® with 50dB damping. It cost around 50EUR/m².
This is far expensive. Is it worthy to buy. Has anyone tried before?
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