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www.mast-victims.org forum / Health / Radio Therapy: Mobile Mast Radiation?: A cure that can leave you a prisoner in your home
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charles
Member
# Posted: 1 Mar 2013 10:01
Reply 


I see it differently.
I have a very sensitive detector.
In a lot of rent appartments, the cv radiators do have a heat consume meter.
Nowadays they send a signal in the ISM868 band, but older types do not send a signal. Once a year somebody comes and reads the value by eye.

Now, when I hold the probe against this heta meter, I can clearly hear the signals of the display.
When I hold the probe at a distance of 3 centimeter, I cannot measure these signals.
But an electrosensitive person may experience health problems at a distance of 3 meters.


The only explanation for this phenomen is, that in this case, the transversal waves stop at a distance of 3 cm, but the longitudinal waves travel much farther, at least at 3 meter.

And it is the properties of longitudinal waves, that are so biological influential.
And all radiation do contain longitudinal waves.

Reiner Gebbensleben has written a thick book about this, and explains a lot.
It is that a lot of *gizmo's* do something on longitudinal waves, like the BioProtect card.

Henrik
Admin
# Posted: 1 Mar 2013 10:43
Reply 


charles,

With "longitudinal waves", do you mean "scalar waves"? If you have some material on the effects of longitudinal waves, please let me know.

Wireless radiator heat measurer's are being installed in Copenhagen. I've checked them with a HF59B meter and I measured 200 µW/m2 at 10cm distance and approx. 70 µW/m2 at a further distance. They also transmit in the 868 MHz frequency band.

What meter did you use?

For a sensitive person, even 70 µW/m2 is a lot.

charles
Member
# Posted: 1 Mar 2013 11:35
Reply 


I see it differently.

In a lot of rent appartments, the cv radiators do have a heat consume meter.
Nowadays they send a signal in the ISM868 band, but older types do not send a signal. Once a year somebody comes and reads the value by eye.

I have a very sensitive detector.
Now, when I hold the probe directly against this heat meter, I can clearly hear the changing signals on the display.
When I hold the probe at a distance of 3 centimeter, I cannot measure these signals anymore.
But an electrosensitive person may experience health problems at a distance of 3 meters.


The only explanation for this phenomen is, that in this case, the transversal waves stop at a distance of 3 cm, but the longitudinal waves travel much farther, at least at 3 meter.

And it is the properties of longitudinal waves, that are so biological so influential.
And all radiation do contain longitudinal waves.

Reiner Gebbensleben has written a thick book about this, and explains a lot.
It is that a lot of *gizmo's* do something on longitudinal waves, like the BioProtect card.

charles
Member
# Posted: 1 Mar 2013 11:40
Reply 


For a sensitive person, even 1µW/m² = one µW/m² may be too much !

Henrik
Admin
# Posted: 1 Mar 2013 14:08
Reply 


charles,

Agreed, but what meter do you use? Just out of technical curiosity.

You copy/pasted your post again.. so I'm unsure if you're wanting to add something to the discussion or just emphasize what you've already written...

charles
Member
# Posted: 1 Mar 2013 19:48
Reply 


Sorry, I did not see the posting appear, so I used the chance to edit it a bit.
But in the mean time, it was there.
Please remove the first posting.

I measured with a prototype of an EMP Spion, but also with a special Spectrum Analyser.

I do see the *dirty power* and the what I call the *dirty air* as more dangerous than the radiation of mobile phone masts.
They contain frequencies from 5kHz up to 30MHz.
And not only in the electrical mains, but also in our grounding cables, and in the ground.

Samuel Milham wrote me:
I have been finding many of the same things that you find.....What's most disturbing is the dirty electricity generated by wind turbines and photovoltaic solar systems is sent to the end users and along the way contaminates air, ground and people with dirty electricity. Many people report to me that their solar collectors, smart meters, earthing blankets and appliances make them ill.......Dirty Electricity is spectrum wide.

Below is a spectrumanalyser showing the influence of a powerplug.

[img=http://www.milieuziektes.nl/Pictures/Belgacom Powerplug]Powerplug[/img]

charles
Member
# Posted: 1 Mar 2013 19:55
Reply 


In this forum one cannot upload images and reports.
And a posting cannot be edited.
Sorry, the aforementioned link is not good.
I try again.

Powerplug

charles
Member
# Posted: 1 Mar 2013 19:59
Reply 


And when the powerplug was drawn from the wall socket:

Belgacom modem

What remains is the rest of the dirty power.

charles
Member
# Posted: 1 Mar 2013 20:05
Reply 


And here what I measured on a gas stove.
This was what was present in the grounding wires, but also in the ground itsself, as well in the air.
The electricity was completely shut off.

The electrosensitive inhabitants of then farm have flown.

B7388gasfornuis.jpg

D. andre
# Posted: 1 Mar 2013 21:16
Reply 


Well I have been left behind - good and proper. My little bit of explanation began by trying not to compare microwaves used in communication - mobile phones, masts etc. with radiation produced by radioactivity. But you see, I am affected, as a result I keep my use of computers to a minimum and have not been to this website for a while.
Agnes, I am a supporter of your website and indeed you are doing a great job - I use 2 or 3 different names.
However despite the blogs in between, since my contribution I will like to add a bit here.
I am forever conscious of over-reacting at the use of radiation and I have a whole family that are totally against me about my view of microwaves in health and disease. And believe me it is difficult to state my case as they all have PhDs and MDs and my poxy degree seems pathetic.
So what I was trying to say is that these waves have different properties. However, whilst writing I realised that actually it is probably the concentration, amount, dose, call it what you like, that makes a difference. We have all evolved with the background radiation that the earth is bombarded with from space and the sun. We can cope with this but when we generate it in thousands and millions of times stronger as we do with microwaves, that is when disease ensues.
Message to Shiwa,
You really don't have to understand atoms to know that their use to generate microwaves can make you ill.
I tend to agree with you that the explanations of physicists is often flawed and full of the limitations of our understanding and being anthropocentric. Very often they seem to use their imaginations to extremes and devoid of reality! A good article though!

D. andre
# Posted: 1 Mar 2013 21:27
Reply 


Agnes, and so to summarise, when these electromagnetic waves, whether X-rays, gamma rays or microwaves, are above the background 'concentration' they may well cause similar symptoms- radiation sickness- as you suggest, Agnes.

charles
Member
# Posted: 1 Mar 2013 21:31
Reply 


@ D.andre
You should download and print the document:
*Electromagnetic hypersensitivity: Fact or fiction?
by Stephen J. Genuis and Christopher T. Lipp.

It is a scientific document about what electrosensitivity is all about.

It can improve understanding of family and doctors.

agnes
# Posted: 2 Mar 2013 02:28
Reply 


D. andre.
I am very thankful for your input into our debate.
We are desperately trying to get the "Establishment" and the press to stop up and listen to us, for once.
We are Not Successful, the WHO has had to bite the grass after it was published that the Iarc classified Electromagnetic Microwave Radiation as class 2B carcinogenic, but I will bet you they will not look at it for another 10 years, because it is such a "cash-cow" for them, and the respective governments, (just look at how the UK treasury was disappointed that the 4G auction profit was well below expectation, and what Osborne had calculated with) but to us, who are affected it is not the Cancer threat that we are zooming in on.
It is the Short Term daily healt effects which turn our lives upside down and remove our quality of life.

And the revelation that Babies and Very Young Children are now dying of Brain cancer really gets to me.
Why?

Just a few years ago this was almost unheard of.
So, what is happening here?
Is it the fact that brand new babies first encounters with Microwaves happen with the wireless "Baby-Monitor" and that they go on to the "Baby Shusher" and end up being handed a mobile phone or an Ipad to play with?

And yes, It is the Daily Health Effects that are killing us, the lack of sleep, the loss of appitite, the awful headaches, the sickness the Tinnitus, that makes it impossible to concentrate (And believe you me, many are in a bad way as Concentration is a MUST, when you are a company executive and have to deliver quotations, receive orders and coordinate, often tricky jobs from start to finish.

Have you noticed that the use/prescription of sleeping pills, stress/nerve medicine and painkillers has shot up by a massive 600% over the last 3-4 years in the UK alone?
Why?

We get information from our newspapers every day about the deteriorating health of the workforce, who can barely drag them selves to work, and have even more difficulty in delivering a proper days work.
And they are really suffering in the more and more wire-less office environment.

But, many are the same people who are addicted to their mobile phones, you see them with their phones glued to their ear on the street.
A couple who go out to a restaurant are to busy with their phones to bother to talk together or with their friends, so they might as well be alone.

At home they cook their meals in the Microwave oven (it gives off massive radiation, you take a sound monitor near one and it screams off its head). But this goes on daily.

They then take care of their banking, paying bills etc, in bed on their wireless computers powered by the in-house Wi-Fi and their mobile phones are put next to their bed, set to ring when it is time to get up.
Most children and teenagers sleep with their mobile phones under their pillow, so terrified are they of missing a call or a text, in the dead of night.

On top of that there is all the emission from their neighbours wireless gadgets, the "Smart Meters" and the radio/mobile mast nearby.

And, so we wonder WHY they end up being stressed out of their tiny sculls, but don´t know why, and they have no hope of help from anywhere.
There is no official debate, no warnings, the "Precautionary Principle" has had to give way to the Treasury's interests, so No guidelines, and this is Not accepted by the HPA, who incidentally base their research of Microwave Radiation health effects on which studies are published on the Internet in English! (So much for serious research!)

With all this artificial Radiation of top of Nature's natural one how can this be anything other than bad.
I know from my past that Strong Natural Radiation can be very bad indeed and cause a lot of bad health effects, so when a lot of artificial radiation is added to the near environment, it is bound to double up.

And little by little there are Very few places where you can avoid it
Best regards.
Agnes

agnes
# Posted: 2 Mar 2013 02:45
Reply 


D. andre.

Do you know of Dr. Dows´s work.

It is worth reading, so I am putting in a link:
http://www.mast-victims.org/forum/index.php?action=vthread&forum=3&topic=264

Dr. Dowson (from Bristol) wrote a "diagnostics tool" for GP´s some years ago, and I believe it is still valid, as nothing has changed, except for the amount of added radiation used now.
Best regards.
Agnes

D. andre
# Posted: 2 Mar 2013 19:54
Reply 


Agnes thank you for the reply.
You must be very busy so it is appreciated. Believe me I know what you are talking about.I tend to get headaches and then afterwards a strange depression and the need to cry.
I wish I could do more. I have recently sent the 'Freiberger Appeal 2012' to various people, some doctors and politicians etc. but I don't hold much hope.
The relatives I had already mentioned still live by the principle that if it has not been a double blind, peer reviewed, control trial for upteen times it is not worth discussing and my rantings that 'but there is research but it is kept from the public' does not make any difference.
Anyway I cannot spend long on this

agnes
# Posted: 3 Mar 2013 03:37
Reply 


D. andre.
Yes there are peer rewiewed studies, but there are actually 2 types.
Type 1). the kind the Industry sponsors and the Governments orders
because that is what They want to believe, and this is the only
type the HPA finds on the net. (and dont forget they are also a
Government quango or "agency", whatever they want to cal
l themself)
Example:
When the Essex study was performed by Dr. Fox, (a Pchyciatrist, the lines are already drawn there), I and my husband Erik were invited to take part, but as we run a company with employees and are responsible for their take home pay we could not just dash off to take part, so we declined the offer.
Later I found out from some of my aquaintances who joined and who suffer from the Microwave radiation, that we had not missed much, most of them got sick from the radiation already in the start and had to leave, only one stayed on to the bitter end.
Result: All the ones who got sick and had to leave got their testemony´s discarded, (and no mention of that they had had to leave because of health effects) the one who stayed, Phil Watts, was in total minority, so the outcome was as predicted, no measurable effect.
Beats me how they dare use taxpayers hard earned money on a stunt like that.

The 2). type of research are Also Peer reviewed, but come from a long list
of Internationsl Independent Scientists, who are Not sponsored by
industry Or Governments.
Their reviews are also published in the "Med" papers, are peer
reviewed and most ar double blind.

The problem: As theIndependent Scientists are an International lot, and many publish in their Native languages they get disregarded by the HPA, who simply dont seem to understand any language but English, and dont bother to get them translated so as to be able to make a serious Un-biased opinion. (I myself speak 3 languages, Erik speaks 4, and we understand many more, but are just ordinary people, I have O level, Erik has a Bachelor of Science in Engineering).

There has Never been a legal excuse for ignorance, and I am sure the HPA will claim they are not ignorant, so the Only Conclusion is that they are under orders to ignore the truth and cannot be bothered to seriously try to find out, so take the shortcut.

They are hired help to "Look after and Protect the Health and Interests of the Population" of This Country, and if their performance is similar on other health issues as it is on this one they certainly dont earn their pay.

Best regards.
Agnes

Ann
# Posted: 3 Mar 2013 18:11
Reply 


Agnes,
I had already written to the HPA about smart meters and they wrote a very short note back saying that there is no evidence!

I am well aware of the Essex study and I am ashamed to say that I know the uni well, but it seems they were bought by the mobile phone industry. The research was widely broadcast by the media - 'it is alright to use the mobile phone to your heart's content because it is not harmful'.
I looked at the research in detail at the time and they did not leave much time before each experiment. Also people were not 'cleared' of microwave exposure for a day or 2 before experiment, nor was there much time in between experiments. I find after exposure it takes me a couple of days to get back to normal. So the research was flawed from the start but the media made a big fuss. It is so sad.

It makes me particularly annoyed because academics are bought now. There used to be the day when academics did the work for the love of it now they do it for the money. Who is to believe who?
When are people going to realise that money will not give them happiness?
So many people are suffering when just a few simple precautions will make so much difference - even to turn their mobile off some of the time, use a wired phone land line, get rid of the microwave oven. I think this is particularly bad I can even feel it when the neighbours put theirs on! I am very worried about it all.
kind regards
Ann

Henrik
Admin
# Posted: 3 Mar 2013 18:21
Reply 


Ann,

You might find this interesting re Essex:
Essex EHS study manipulated to show no effect

The documentary "Resonance - beings of frequency" has a segment on Essex study starting at approx. 30 minutes into the film. The above link starts the film at 30 min. mark.

agnes
# Posted: 4 Mar 2013 03:05
Reply 


Ann.
Never forget, that the HPA is NOT "Here For Us", they are just another Government Quango, overpaid by taxpayers to do what the Governments policy is at any one time, and whatever colour Government.
In short, just another Civil Servant institution.

I guess that was the reason the, then, government closed down the NRPB and "Merged" them with the HPA, as by doing that the government got more control over things and policy.

The Essex study was Solely paid for by MOA (Mobile Operators Association) and the Government (i.e. Taxpayers).

And I bet that the reason why a psychiatrist was put in charge was solely because of MOA´s motto, "Microwave Radiation is totally harmless" if you feel poorly because of the mast next door, it is because "It is All In Your Head".

Well, we dont think so, and when I say we I mean the receivers of the Microwave Radiation form the "Friendly Neighbourhood Mobile Mast" and that is Worldwide.
Just look at India today.
They want the Industry to produce "Evidence of No Harm"
http://www.mast-victims.org/index.php?content=news&action=view&type=newsitem&id=5920

In Britain in many different Media Forums when a Industry "Spokes- person" has had a say, their claim used to be that there was "No Harm", couriosly this has now changed to: There is No Conclusive Evidence Of Harm" and that there are thousands of studies to proof that, but, if, in this same Media Forum you ask that they provide some evidence for "No Harm" and produce acess to "All these thousands of studies", they suddenly go deadly quiet. never to be heard of again in that Media Forum.

So, does that make them trustworthy?
Best regards.
Agnes

Henrik
Admin
# Posted: 4 Mar 2013 10:56
Reply 


Warning, rant ahead...

The HPA, the Danish National Board of Health .. they are all the same. A political instrument. A "firewall" to protect the coffers from backlash due to health problems mushrooming from Govt. deals with polluting industry X.

You can elect any flavor of Government you like but the underbelly of Civil Servants stays the same. Once in a while they get "renamed" or shuffled a bit but the same concrete mindsets persist. I rather call them "Civil Serpents" which I think is more accurate.

Putting a shrink in charge of an EHS study just shows the blatant bias at the outset. The study is flawed by design and by data. Even Elaine Fox admitted that because they removed the data from participants who were forced to drop out, the study might have missed a "real effect" by 30%.
But the study didn't have enough EHS participants from the beginning to reach statistical significance of there being a real effect. That the study found a 90% chance of an effect, despite that limitation says something. At least it says that EHS are phenomenal at guessing the exposure. Now what are the odds...

Back in the days when the mobile-phone was launched the Press demanded proof of safety because the transmission was based on microwaves. The industry, not having expected any resistance, scrambled to show a bunch of old studies done on microwave ovens and the outrage dropped telecom stock through the floor. It was clear that the industry hadn't done anything for safety testing.
The one thing they don't want is for stock to plummet. Throw anything at them - but just don't try and touch their profits.
But what about now? Where is the Press? Has the mobile-phone become such a convenience bone for the Watchdogs that they can't question it anymore? For the media there is, of course, the constant global advertising revenue from telecoms and in Denmark one of the oldest newspapers, Berlingske, started a mobile-phone subscription service! - so I guess the answer is yes.

Ann
# Posted: 7 Mar 2013 21:53
Reply 


When all these effects can no longer be suppressed and people do realise that they are being made ill by all these microwave emissions who is going to pay for all the litigations!
Or have we all become zombies and will not even make the connection? Sometimes I feel this is the case. It is frightening.
There is just one glimmer of hope that I have: the German doctors with their renewed Freiberger appeal. Maybe somebody will listen to them!

Ann
# Posted: 7 Mar 2013 21:55
Reply 


When all these effects can no longer be suppressed and people do realise that they are being made ill by all these microwave emissions who is going to pay for all the litigations!
Or have we all become zombies and will not even make the connection? Sometimes I feel this is the case. It is frightening.
There is just one glimmer of hope that I have: the German doctors with their renewed Freiberger appeal. Maybe somebody will listen to them!

ericgeneric
Member
# Posted: 7 Mar 2013 23:43
Reply 


When all these effects can no longer be suppressed and people do realise that they are being made ill by all these microwave emissions who is going to pay for all the litigations!Or have we all become zombies and will not even make the connection? Sometimes I feel this is the case. It is frightening.

That's one of the biggest reasons I keep going with the blog, and with spreading the word elsewhere...by helping to join the dots. The media and the authorities do their best to muddy everything and deflect away from people being able to make the connection, and instead fill their heads with other red herrings in the form of established conditions being blamed, continually bombrading on a daily basis with conflicting misinformation and so on. The connection is there, loud and clear. Anyone would see how obvious the link is, if they were given all the facts and ignored the misinformation and disinformation tactics.

EG.

agnes
# Posted: 8 Mar 2013 02:20
Reply 


Ann.
Lately all the National UK Newspapers have been filled with woe about the misuse of painkillers and nerve/stress medicine.
A growth of 600% over the past few years in those chemials speaks Volumes.
And as you say, it is beeing blamed on "Ordinary Environmental Factors"

What everyone forgets is that Microwave Radiation is a Huge Part of this
"Everyday Environmental Factors" be it peoples Mobiles, "I" whatevers, the streets Wi-Fi, the neighbours Dect, The BT Homehob or the lethal Mobile Mast Next door to your home or/and place of work, and your childrens schools, inside and out.
Blame sausages, blame bacon, blame whatever old that Never caused harm before, so what is New, Yes the New thing is the Constant Microwave Radiation Battering we are subjected to, Everywhere!

It was not in our local environment just 20 years ago, but now there is No Way to Avoid it, and believe you me, they, the Industry, the Government the WHO and the ICNIRP know all about it, and have done since the 1960´s when the first alarm went up.
Yet, it is such a Cash-Cow for all involved (Industry and Treasuries) that
the Casualty level, however high it might end up being is acepted, at our expense, and that is not just here in the UK but worldwide!

At mast-victims.org we get a lot of letters from distrought people/groups from all the corners of the world asking us if we can help them to fight a Mobile mast installation in their community, we try all we can to help them.

Sometimes they win by using some of our advice, which we have build up through the years, on what we think might help, and we all savor the Victory, but know that some other more unfortunate community will then be landed with the pestilence.
Others lose and all we can do is to offer our condolances and hope for the best for them.

And, you are totally right, when Finally it will be admitted that this pestilence of Artificial Microwave Radiation is to blame for the mass of people going down with the health effects, and they start to fill the, by now, thoroughly Microwave Radiated NHS institutions, it will again be US who will have to carry the cost.

The Polluting Microwave Radiation Industry will pack their bags, and as all good rats leave the ship with their profit, and the short gain Politicians have made them self's un-liable for the responsibilities they have to their citizens' health and well- being.

So, you can calculate, when the sh.. hits the fan and with the Culprits vanished in a puff of smoke, the Politicians as "White as Snow" because "There Was No Concrete Evidence according to the HPA" , who can only read English research Studies on the Internet, so We (Politicians) were in Good Faith!

So it all comes down to what you asked: Who will Pay?
We will of course!
Like always!
Remember, We are the Taxpaying Cattle!
WE DONT GET ASKED, WE GET TOLD!

ericgeneric
Member
# Posted: 8 Mar 2013 02:55
Reply 


Blimey, I cannot add to that. SPOT ON.

It's like the nonsense newspaper headline today/yesterday, "1 in 30 people killed by eating meat". What about the other 29?! Believe you me, they'd find ANY reason to blame for outbreaks of suicide, sudden death syndrome, obesity, dementia....ANYTHING BUT THE BLOODY MICROWAVE TECHNOLOGY.

Every day they keep trying to pull the same trick. Focus on some cause that (they think) will deflect attention from what we know is really causing all this to happen. Even the weather is getting messed up from this. It's not global warming, or climate change as they think of it. The climate is being changed. Being changed into an unpredictable mess. A bit like the poor sods down here on the ground.

EG.

Henrik
Admin
# Posted: 8 Mar 2013 16:10
Reply 


ericgeneric,

Speaking of media ...take a look at these short clips where comedian Conan O' Brien exposes just how carefully orchestrated the media really is - and this example is just the U.S local media ..which you might kind of expect to be made up of many different stations:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAkxR9T01pw
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46-fI18pJyw

Apparently they all get their scripts from the same place.

Ann
# Posted: 10 Mar 2013 18:25
Reply 


Yesterday's Times has a whole section on 'stress, anxiety, fear' about children being so stressed and frightened and no one is making the connection - at least not anything the newspapers will publish!
I remember when the word 'stress' came into common use and looking back it was around the time when microwave ovens became popular and it has been downhill all the way since then with the mobile phones and all the other related gadgets.
I also remember when my daughter used to tell me one or another of her friends' mothers were suffering from depression and anxiety.
I used to wonder what on earth was going on with these people - now I know! I don't think many of them made the connection even now. Sometimes I give a bit of advise but rarely listened to!

A point of interest: a friend's child was diagnosed with epilepsy and the doctor actually suggested that they should reduce their use of mobile phones etc. because they may be causing the epilepsy. There is hope yet!

Henrik
Admin
# Posted: 12 Mar 2013 21:57
Reply 


Ann,

I learned from a lady who's friend has a glioma (aggressive, malignant brain tumor) that the oncologists (cancer doctors) and neurosurgeons at the central hospital in Copenhagen are calling glioma "the new AIDS". Patients are pouring in.

Recently the Danish Cancer Society admitted that there's been a 40% increase in malignant brain cancers in the last decade. They also claimed to "have no idea" as to what is driving this increase.

ericgeneric
Member
# Posted: 12 Mar 2013 22:42
Reply 


They "have no idea", eh? Incredible, isn't it. What's the saying, you can lead a horse to water...but you can't make it drink!

How much longer before this blanket denial comes to an end.

EG.

Shiwa
Member
# Posted: 24 Jun 2013 01:43
Reply 


Firstly, i think of this thread: „Frankly it has gone off the rails". Pathetic.

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