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www.mast-victims.org forum / Technical / *het bitje* November 2010
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charles
# Posted: 23 Oct 2010 00:13
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There is a new issue of *het bitje* available for download.
Several different HF meters are tested.
There is a german and an english issue.
English: http://www.hetbitje.nl/bitjeE201011p.pdf

daniel
Member
# Posted: 24 Oct 2010 18:16
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Very interesting.

As I told you, my Spectran gave under evaluated datas. After reading those test you've done, my Spectran is correct and the other detectors give over evaluated datas.

I'm glad but the problem is that eveybody here use a Gigahertz Solution detector. Furthermore the safety code in Canada are 30 millions µW/m˛ for HF. When I tell everybody that I cannot sleep with a WiFi at 200 nanoW/m˛, detected with the Spectran, some people tell me my detector is wrong and the general public just thing i'm crazy!

Anyway, I know for a couple of year now that i'm not the only one in this situation. Thank you for all the creators of forums like here. Together we can establish the truth.

Thank you Charles. Those test are very usefull.

Anonymous
# Posted: 25 Oct 2010 20:13
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Charles

Very interesting tests!

"What irritates me personally, is then fact that I cannot measure a value of f.i. ca. 230 W/m˛ with a HF58B or HF59B. In position *mittel* they show a I, saying, the value is bigger than 199 W/m˛. When I switch to *grob*, he starts with 160 W/m˛."

I own the less expensive Gigahertz-Solutions HFE35C and HFW35C meters.
You can measure 230 W/m˛ with them both. I just wish that I did not have to disconnect the antenna and then attach an attenuator between the antenna and the meter in order to measure above 1999W/m˛.
A switch to change range by 20dB would be a useful feature.

Thank you Charles.
------------------------------

Daniel

You are not alone!
The next-door neighbour [detached house] has DECT/wifi.

I am itching and not sleeping well with 0.03 W/m˛ measured on the HFE35C meter [using a 15dB pre-amplifier] and 0.003 W/m˛ on the HFW35C meter [using a 20dB pre-amplifier].
I am sleeping under a canopy.

It was tolerable under the canopy when there was just the phone mast/mobile phone signals coming into the house but the situation worsened after he got the DECT/wifi [BT HomeHub].

What about the low frequencies that are being added to the telecommunications transmissions??

ES

Anonymous
# Posted: 25 Oct 2010 20:18
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Correction
For some reason the copied and pasted 'mu' symbol did not transfer to the page.

I am itching and not sleeping well with 0.03 microwatts per m˛ measured on the HFE35C meter [using a 15dB pre-amplifier] and 0.003 microwatts per m˛ on the HFW35C meter [using a 20dB pre-amplifier].

ES

daniel
Member
# Posted: 25 Oct 2010 21:17
Reply 


ES It was tolerable under the canopy when there was just the phone mast/mobile phone signals coming into the house but the situation worsened after he got the DECT/wifi [BT HomeHub].

May be they use a 5.8 GHz dect phone. Usualy the canopies doesn't shield up to 3.3 GHz. Myself I don't stand canopies, I have shielded the walls against my neighbors with aluminium screen plus 10 GHz Swiss shield fabric for the window.



ES What about the low frequencies that are being added to the telecommunications transmissions??

You mean Smart meters, here in Canada it's gonna be wireless instead of power transmission. I live in a middle of trailer park. Imagine the mess with all of those smart meters around me!

charles
# Posted: 28 Oct 2010 21:35
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@Daniel,

you make a mistake.
You cannot compare apples with beans.

The values you measure with the Gigahertz meters are *Spitzenwert*, so the peaks are measured.
That is not according the regulations.
Conform regulations one has to measure RMS.
And the Spectran just measures RMS, and those values are correct, but always much lower than *Spitzenwert*.

However, when using the LCS software (V 2.0.0.0) you can measure instead of RMS also Peak, which will give you higher values.
Don't forget, that for certain frequency bands you have to activate PEP (in the LCS) and then you will also have higher values.

In the new MCS software (the succesoor of LCS) it goes faster and more clearer, but this is still in the Beta phase.

On the meter you can have a mx of 3 markers.
In the LCS you may have 10.
In the MCS you may have 99.

When using the LCS you can run *Marker summieren*, and then the total value of all markers is automatically calculated, when chosen for uW/m˛.

My overall point with this issue of *het bitje* is NOT to give a bad impression about broadband meters, but just to prove that they cannot accumulate a number of signals.
In Switzerland they did now tests with three DECT phones, ant the total value was less than the max of a single DECT.

My point is, that the official measuring instances do not measure correctly.
They measure first with a broadband meter with an omnidirectional antenna, so they do not know what kind of signal they are measuring. It may be the DECT of the neighbours.
And when they use a spectrumanalyser, they conveniently measure only 1 GSM900, 1 GSM1800 and 1 UMTS sender. All other surrounding semnders are not looked after.
I have placed complaints now with the dutch and belgian authorities, and they stopped sending reports and reflecting what to do.
Despite the fact, that in the Netherlands the amount of mobile phone masts have grown enormously, they published that measurements show, that the amount of radiation did not rise the past years.
Yeah, if you only measure one sender in the woods of masts, than this trick works, but not for me.

charles
# Posted: 28 Oct 2010 21:46
Reply 


Do not think that your broadband meter has become bad overnight.

You should only realize that not all signals are added.
You measure only one signal, and well the strongest.

Therefore, one should listen carefully to the audioanalysis, and measure that way other sources.
Only a GSM900 and a GSM1800 are producing the same sound.
Because the values are in uW/m˛ you may add them up in order to know the total value.

daniel
Member
# Posted: 31 Oct 2010 19:05
Reply 


And the Spectran just measures RMS, and those values are correct, but always much lower than *Spitzenwert*.

My spectran detector
measure RMS and peak. In the menu it can both be select in "detect". Also I can swicth directly with the button "shift". I always use Peak because it give much value, but it is very lower than the value provided by a Gigahertz detector.


In the new MCS software (the succesoor of LCS) it goes faster and more clearer, but this is still in the Beta phase.

I have the LCS 1.9.9.9. May be it's better for me to download MCS software. What do you mean by Beta phase?

charles
# Posted: 1 Nov 2010 19:25
Reply 


The latest version of LCS is 2.0.0.0.

In the LCS, one may choose between RMS and Peak. However this peak is not the same as Spitzenwert from broadband meters.
For certain applications, in the LCS PEP must be activated; that also gives greater values.
In the MCS, peak is changed into Min/Max.


The MCS is only for registered Beta testers.
Beta means that it lacks a number of features, but that they are in developing mode.
It lacks at the moment for instance *marker summieren*.
Although I have a special version to see how it would work out.

MCS at present is only for HF, not for NF. That will be looked after, after the Fair in München is over.

daniel
Member
# Posted: 2 Nov 2010 14:27
Reply 


I'm gonna download the LCS 2.0.0.0 and make few readings and come back with this.
Thank you Charles.

daniel
Member
# Posted: 6 Nov 2010 20:17
Reply 


Charles

The LCS 2.0.0.0 is downloaded.
I cannot activate the LCS PEP, what's wrong?

daniel
Member
# Posted: 9 Nov 2010 16:08
Reply 


Charles
Another test has been made on Gigahertz Solutions meters and prove that they can add all signals. How do you explain that?
http://www.gigahertz-solutions.de/media/downloads/various/de/TEMPTON_HF35C.pdf

charles
# Posted: 10 Nov 2010 15:12
Reply 


Yes I do know of this test.
But these signals were generated with a CW-generator. So these signals were NOT pulsed.
As soon as signals are pulsed, like my two DECT phones, then those meters go awol.
I suggest, you do a test with two DECT base stations .
First measure one DECT, than the second, and then those two together.

They have another test:
http://www.gigahertz-solutions.de/media/downloads/various/de/HFE59B_0280_15287_15032. pdf
Look at the correction factors !

charles
# Posted: 10 Nov 2010 15:14
Reply 


PEP.

PEP can only be activated with certain frequency bands.
F.i. with DECT, or UMTS or WLAN.

Anonymous
# Posted: 11 Nov 2010 19:25
Reply 


Charles,

If you have 2 DECT phones in a room pulsing they are not necessarily going to be pulsing and peaking at exactly the same time, are they?

North

charles
# Posted: 12 Nov 2010 11:57
Reply 


Hello North,

no, they do not.
But we are measuring the signal strength.
It is a bit curious, that measuring 2 DECT's, the total value is less than that of a single DECT.

Because I cannot turn a phone mast off and on, I have doene some tests with two DECT phones and later with an added modem.

I do not say that broadband meters are bad but one has to be aware what is happening in the accumulation of signals.
In my view one has to measure much more sources separately (they can be found with using the audio analysis).

The values in uW/m2 can be added together in order to know the total load.

superdrove
Member
# Posted: 10 Jan 2011 13:21
Reply 


I have an Electrosmog Detector from Detect-Portect and it has been a life-saver.

But, I need to buy a RF meter (Cell Tower meter) ASAP to get more specific information about what is coming into my apartment. I live within a block of 36 cell tower anntenna representing 4-5 different companies. They amp the radiation up and down throughout the day. I need to measure the signals to find out if they are above FCC standards, and I need a meter that will go beyond the 3.0 GHz range of the Electrosmog Detector. Something that goes to 8-10 GHz at least. I am smart (minor in Chemisty) but, I don't want a super complicated meter that requires software to analyze it and don't want to have to take a course to figure out how to interpret the readings, don't want to have to do a lot of math, and I don't want to have to spend more than $800 or so, preferrably less than $500. What meter would anyone on this forum recommend? I have looked at many of the meters available and it is all confusing as I am not an engineer. Help.

Anonymous
# Posted: 10 Jan 2011 14:15
Reply 


superdrove,

you say you have looked at many of the meters available. So my question is: why do you assume that a meter which measures up to 10 GHz would cost less than $800? Forget that. BTW: cell towers are not in this freuency range. Only RADAR frequencies.
Therefore I would recommend either the HF35C or HF38B from Gigahertz Solutions in Germany. These meters are absolutely sufficient. The price is 300-500 EUR.

superdrove
Member
# Posted: 21 Jan 2011 23:58
Reply 


Charles, Your meter comparison was fab. Glad there is someone on the list with access to these various expensive units who is able to do comparisons. If there is a possibility that broadband meter readings people are using are lower than they are in reality, that is a serious situation.

Anonymous has recommended that I get a meter that only goes to 2.5 GHz. The Electrosmog Detector range is 50 MHz-3 GHz, with sensitivity of 0.01 V/m and many cheap meters go to 3.5 GHz.

I understand that most microwaves are in the frequency bands below 3.0 GHz but if you look at the stock charts for the wireless industry, they are on non-stop climb upwards, kind of like Gold. There is no way this wireless nightmare is going to end with all that money being made. It is just getting started and will continue to get more extreme, with more frequency bands being utilized. And now that the whole infrastructure of towers and products is established, it is not going to be torn down because a few thousand people die. Like when the book "Currents of Death" by Paul Brodeur came out in 1989 showing EMF's from Power Lines were hazardous; that book made the New York Times best seller list, but had absolutely no effect on the US Electric Grid. I doubt if even one Power Pole next to anyone's house was ever torn down or moved. Now, over 23 years later, the power poles are still up, and the electric grid is the same, but older, with some poles not being maintained properly. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013901278_streetlights11.html

Anyway, I am anticipating that many frequency bands above 3.5 GHz will start filling up in the next 10 years. I was looking at a few charts on this site: http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&va=wireless+frequency+ch art&fr=yfp-t-892

And from this page I accessed a chart from a U.S. company that sells Law and Government enforcement equipment. http://enforcementauction.com/images/thumbs/Frequency-Perf-Chart.jpg

From their chart, it appears they are already manufacturing many law enforcement products other than DECT 5.8 GHz that can and will utilize the 5.8 GHz frequency range. Who knows what gadgets are going to be coming onto the market in the next 5 years and what frequency ranges they will be using? If I pay hundreds of dollars for a meter, I just want to be able to access some of these possible frequency bands that may be coming up soon. Am I being ridiculous? Maybe meters will be improved in the next 5 years and I will need to buy another one anyway.

ericgeneric
Member
# Posted: 22 Jan 2011 00:12
Reply 


I don't really get this obsession with meters....if you're affected by EMRs, and their power is going to keep on increasing (as you say), then what use is a meter against that anyway. If there's no escaping all this, why bother trying to run away from it. Sorry but I don't get the logic. It's just a load of figures being bandied about.

EG.

superdrove
Member
# Posted: 22 Jan 2011 01:54
Reply 


Ericgeneric,

Cool name. Thanks for you reply. I can see that you are a very logical person. You said you don't get my logic. No logic here. Not too knowledgeable about all this. Just trying to get the best bang for my buck and figures are indeed being bandied about. We are all stressed about the mess the wireless companies have made of our lives.

If I seem over concerned or as you say "obcessed" about meters, it is because I have already spent so much money trying to remmediate my apartment, I cannot afford to waste anymore money on a meter I can't use and as yet I don't know that much about them. I will need proper readings if I am going to confront the Federal Communication Commission (FCC).

I have had many expensive wastes recently on the remediation front, since I moved into my new apartment 3 months age, but my latest waste: I just purchased $600 worth of Stainless Steel 22 mesh screen, went to great lengths to make wood frames and staple this very stiff, sharp, screen on them, so I would not damage the walls in my apartment. And then after installing the frames along the wall, widows and in front of the sliding glass doors, the amped up frequencies they are beaming in at me from 36 cell antenna, went right thru. The frequencies also went right thru 18 gauge Stainless Steel sheet metal as well, coming all up thru the floor and ceiling, and sheet metal ain't cheap either. A tight Faraday Cage in the living room would work, but I don't have the money, inclination or construction ability to pull that one off. I'll just make a Faraday Cage to sleep in (a canopy won't do), since the bedroom is a toxic waste dump too, stay the hell out of the livng room, live out my lease and get the hell out of here when I can. Even cheap aluminum screen works fine for the walls and windows, until they amp up the frequencies, then nothing works but a high mesh or high gauge Faraday Cage.

You said "If wireless frequency bands will keep increasing then what use is a meter against that anyway?" That answer should be obvious. To measure the frequencies. You said "If there is no escaping this, why bother try to run away from it? " Well, that answer should be obvious too. A meter is the best defense to trying to protect oneself from the possible encroachment.

Peace.

ericgeneric
Member
# Posted: 22 Jan 2011 02:39
Reply 


This is the thing; the damn EMR junk just blasts through whatever "protection" we try to use. Like yourself..been there, done that, got the paint, the mesh and the hole in the bank balance to show for it.

Hence why I ultimately wonder what use meters are; even to measure ever-increasing levels. We know they are there, most of us feel them (myself to a ridiculous degree), and despite being a walking EMR-meter, able to spot and determine direction, strength and type of frequency (not in figures, just differences from the physical impact and my instinct), it is not really going to hold this stuff at bay. I know where feels safe, to a pinpointed degree in fact, but if nowhere is left free in the end, then what?

It's just frustration speaking here. I totally identify with your experience described above, but can't see any measuring device ultimately saving any of us from this. It may even con us into thinking we're in an okay area/zone, when in fact we aren't, since no machine is completey infallible.

You say stay out of rooms and then get the hell out of your place ASP. I absolutely agree with this. Don't waste money and time trying to protect such a bad area; rent a van or a doormobile, something like that, and keep moving around places that are not so EMF-intense. You may not be able to find somewhere completely safe all the time, but you won't be in that toxic waste dump you describe.

EG.

Anonymous
# Posted: 22 Jan 2011 16:11
Reply 


Superdove
It sounds really bad where you are!
Just wondering - did you Earth your stainless steel mesh screening?

The frequencies being used are indeed increasing...

I do have meters HFE35C and HFW35C [Gigahertz-Solutions] bought a few years ago when i started having problems from phone masts. I have found them useful for checking my home and others.

More recently, I was given an Acoustimeter [EMFields]. The Acoustimeter goes from 400 MHz to 8GHz. It gives the peak readings in volts per metre [0.02-6.00], a 'peak hold' in volts per metre and the average readings in microwatts per square metre.

EG
But, here I agree with you EG, the meters only tell part of the story.
What we cannot measure are the low frequencies that are attached to the high frequencies by the mobile operators to increase penetration through walls etc.... and the low frequencies can have physical effects and affect the brain....

ES

superdrove
Member
# Posted: 23 Jan 2011 09:32
Reply 


Ericgeneric said:

"I ultimately wonder what use meters are; even to measure ever-increasing levels."

As far as I'm concerned, a meter is indispensable for trying to manage an Electrosensitive situation. Even the Electrosmog Detector, or similar beeping "toys" , can be very useful. Levels of microwave radiation vary throughout rooms and buildings and one corner could be better than another for putting a chair or bed. I cannot rely on my physical symptoms to guide me where to put things or where to install materials and judge if they are being effective.

I have many symptoms when being exposed, such as eye pain, brain pain, skin pinching, itching and burning – you know the drill. But strangely, if I have been getting hit and then I lay down in my safe zone to go to sleep, there will be residual pinching and pains for about an hour before it calms down, as if my body is trying to detox the radiation. So therefore, I cannot rely on my symptoms because sometimes they are immediate reactions and sometimes they are residual.

EG said " but can't see any measuring device ultimately saving any of us from this. It may even con us into thinking we're in an okay area/zone, when in fact we aren't, since no machine is completely infallible."

Yes, we can be conned and probably are being conned to some degree. But the meters on the market are really our only hope at trying to manage our situation to some degree. Thank god we have access to them. Even the toy is saving my butt in trying to find the safest pocket in my apartment to sleep. The area may not be completely safe, but I believe it is the safest pocket I can find, since I cannot go into my bedroom until I remediate it. I put a "RADIOACTIVE" sticker on the door of the bedroom for now. I have been sleeping in the foyer or doorway for 3 months, because I get no beeping sounds there. So far, I have been sleeping soundly there, with no skin pinching. Thanks to the toy, I can maneuver my way around the apartment where the least amount of exposure is. Makes a huge difference in the way I feel and sleep. Could not manage my situation at all without some kind of detecting or measuring device, no matter how mediocre. Something is better than nothing, although expert precision is to be desired and knowledge is power.

superdrove
Member
# Posted: 23 Jan 2011 09:55
Reply 


Anonymous asked if I grounded my screen and sheet metal. I am going to give more information than anyone probably cares to wade thru. But I thought it would be best to illustrate how my apartment is positioned in relation to the antenna, to explain what I did.

My apartment is a corner unit exposed on 3 sides next to the street. Down that street a block away are 9 panel antennas on a building on the corner. The building is 3 stories high. My unit is 3 stories high. If you walk down to that corner and stand with that building to your back, and look in front of you, one block away on the other corner, is a 15 story high new apartment building with at least 27 hidden antenna on top of it, with at least 2 – 4 Microwave dishes. If you want to know how I know what is on top of a building with hidden towers, I can tell you how to find out. I do not know if that roof is a repeater station. This building is a real hot zone. Of course 5 blocks down the street from that building is a cell tower with about 20 panel antennas on it, and so it goes down the line, for miles one tower after another. I am in the city.

Because my apartment is a corner unit with 3 sides exposed, that makes it easy for the radiation barreling down the street from the panel antenna on the corner, to hit the sides of my building, penetrate the exposed walls, and somehow bend around the corner of the building and create some kind of a hot pocket streaming thru my sliding glass door windows on the deck. The deck is facing away from the antenna, in the complete opposite direction. The backsides and decks of the unit above and below me are also getting hammered by this pocket when the frequencies are amped up every day from about 5:30 pm to 11:30 p.m. The units next to me, on the side of my apartment that are not exposed, do not seem to be getting blasted with this amped up radiation pocket, just the regular stuff. But the apartment building further down the street from this one, is getting hammered. It is all a matter of positioning.

I covered the entire right side of the living room wall and bedroom walls, which are exposed to the street, with cheap aluminum screen. There were large windows on those walls with screaming RF coming thru and beeping RF coming thru the walls. I grounded the screen about every 30 inches to the electrical outlets, after I tested the outlets with a tester to make sure they were grounded properly.

I am on the third floor and running a ground wire over the balcony and pounding a 6-8 foot stake into the ground would not be a good idea, since I am a renter. Plus not sure what stray frequencies the ground wire over the deck might be picking up. There are 4 WI-FI connections in the immediate area and 5 Dish Network Satellites on surrounding decks near me within 15-20 feet. And of course, everyone in the building likely has DECT phones and cell phones. Except me. I have cord phone. So I am being cooked up in quite an evil witches brew.

The grounded cheap aluminum screen works fine to block microwaves (regular or amped up) along the right-sided exposed walls, as long as the wall is covered entirely, floor to ceiling, including baseboard heater and windows. I found that using clear plastic push pins caused the least damage to the wall. Thumbtacks and nails are a no no.

Then I tried the cheap aluminum screen on the deck side wall where the weird AMPED up hot pocket is coming thru, but it didn't work. So I got the 22-mesh stainless steel screen, covered the deck side wall and windows and grounded that to the outlets, but that did not work. Then I tried the grounded 18-gauge sheet metal and that did not work. I then tried the grounded 22 mesh stainless screen along the deck wall, with grounded sheet metal all along the floor in front of the window, and that did not work, because the radiation was going thru the floor further back, presumably from the radiation coming up from the apartment below me. The one above me and below me are getting hammered from this weird pocket. I made a small 3-sided faraday box of screen and put it in front of the worst part of the amped up radiation, then put the detector inside and it was quiet. So, it is a matter of 3-sided coverage for that wall. I would have to cover the wall, ceiling and floor, making sure there is no leakage at the corners. A huge hassle and expense, since I cannot hammer anything into the ceiling to affix materials, and which would also involve blocking off the sliding glass door and the deck.

I could make the living room safe enough to be in if I wanted to spend the money. Maybe I would spend that kind of money on this place if I owned it. But as a renter, that is a lot of heavy bulky materials to be dragging with me when I move.

So I plan to unload my storage room full of boxes into the living room, blocking the deck side wall and floor with boxes about 3-5 rows deep and 7 – 8 high (all apple and banana boxes). That way, I get some insulated blockage and save money on storage bill as well, trying to recoup some of my loss. Of course, I will have no living room to sit in, but the way it is now, I can't be in there from 5:30 pm to 11:30 pm anyway. I will have to move my computer to the dining room, where DECT phone frequencies are coming up thru the floor from the apartment below me. Maybe be able to block that with sheet metal on the floor, as the walls are already blocked with aluminum screen. WTF.

ericgeneric
Member
# Posted: 23 Jan 2011 12:28
Reply 


It is all about positioning, you are spot on there.

You really need to spend as little time where you are living as humanly possible. As the radiation builds up over time, I doubt the effiency of the shiedling materials will last, even if they appear to be stemming the tide at the moment.

Crazy world.

EG.

Charles
# Posted: 24 Jan 2011 08:34
Reply 


Aluminium foil is a bad material for using as a shielding.
It shields the RF, but also the necessary cosmic rays.

After a while, the RF makes small holes in the aluminium foil, through which the RF comes inside again.

I would prefer a shielding material like f.i. the Sunshine 64 by Biologa.
Hanging it on a rail like a curtain in front of tha walls as well as the windows, the shielding will be good.

Be aware that all materials do absorb RF, and when they are satisfied, they will transmit it.
I have found this by continuous measuring over a number of years.
Not only shielding materials, but also stone bricks.
The manufacturors of shileding materials deny this of course.
So it seems important that one can reach the shielding material afterwards.

We have found this phenomenon also with shielding clothing and shielding caps, who after some use, even transmit the RF.
So one must renew the shielding layer in the caps from time to time.

Anonymous
# Posted: 24 Jan 2011 16:22
Reply 


Charles,

can't you "reset" the shielding material by grounding it ?

Charles
# Posted: 25 Jan 2011 12:28
Reply 


@Anonymous,

No.

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