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www.mast-victims.org forum / Technical / dirty electricity
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charles
Member
# Posted: 26 Mar 2013 18:52
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From a lecture I gave recently, I have made a comprehensive page on one of my homepages.
Please have a look at:
http://www.minderstraling.nl/Pagina050.html

charles
Member
# Posted: 1 Apr 2013 10:23
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Typically, nobody asked any questions, although this information is quite new.

ericgeneric
Member
# Posted: 1 Apr 2013 13:19
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charles,

I did look but, probably like many others, don't find a lot of this easy to understand. We are not scientists, just ill people with a very vague comprehension of a complicated subject. Dirty electricity is something we want to look at in our own home, so I was certainly interested in the information even if I cannot understand it.

EG.

charles
Member
# Posted: 1 Apr 2013 23:51
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I do not understand what you do not understand.

Vertical is the amplitude and horizontal is the frequency spectrum.
In the spectrumanalysis, the horizontal graphs, from 5kHz up to 20MHz should be roughly flat horizontally.
When there are peaks, it is bad.

Look f.i. at the powerplug. Over the whole frequency spectrum, there are many high peaks (green), which is bad.
When the powerplug is unplugged, the heavy green peaks are gone.
What remains are the yellow average peaks of the rest of the dirty power.
Many people think, that a powerplug only works with one specific frequency, but I measured quite a lot of different frequencies.

Many people think that the dirt ends at 150kHz (Stetzer), but I showed, that my Acer 26" monitor had no peaks up to around 2500kHz, but heavy ones at around 4500kHz or 4,5MHz, which the standard meters cannot measure.

And look what I found at the grounding lines, even when there was no electricity involved.
That is the reason, why grounded shielding paint may be hazardous.

ericgeneric
Member
# Posted: 2 Apr 2013 04:16
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Thank you for the extra explanation! The issue of grounded shielding paint is an alarming one, given how often it is recommended as a means of protection. My hope is to get an expert in to see what the dirty electricity situation is in our property, although from what you are saying, somebody doing the measurements and analysis may not pick up all the various differences and could miss some problems.

EG.

DM
# Posted: 2 Apr 2013 22:06
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This is very interesting information. I have Stetzer filters, sleep under a canopy with a near 100% reduction in RF, but still hear "the hum" upon awakening in the morning and do have some residual tinnitus as well. I've been wondering if the cause is LF/dirty electricity because my most sensitive measurement device shows all of the RF is gone under the canopy.

charles
Member
# Posted: 3 Apr 2013 19:38
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It is my understanding, that the middle Frequencies, so from 5kHz up tp 30MHz do have the greatest biological impact on our body.
And these frequencies are not measurable with normal high frequency meters.

Look at the picture of this brick wall. The person living in this house had moved all furniture to the back of the house, because there a some mobile phone masts at the flats opposite her house.
I measured a lot of *dirty air* in the corner and avised to place an antenna against the wall outside. Since then, the furniture has been moved again to the front of the house, and even the cat is happy at the front of the house.
There was nothing changed to the mobile phone transmitters. Just the middle frequency components in the beams were isolated.

ericgeneric
Member
# Posted: 6 Apr 2013 17:16 - Edited by: ericgeneric
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Has anyone else tried/used the Stetzer plug-in filters? I am quite tempted to give them a go, in case they make a difference.

EG.

charles
Member
# Posted: 6 Apr 2013 23:54
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If you had a serious look at my presentation, you could have seen, that the Stetzer filters are very limited in use, because they only filter up to 150kHz, while the dirty power can reach up to 20MHz.
I prefer Bajog filters.

ericgeneric
Member
# Posted: 7 Apr 2013 00:11
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charles, I accept that they may be very limited, but I just wanted to ask of others' experiences. My extreme sensitivities to altering power outputs and filter-type devices makes me think I'd be better off trying a more limited kind at first, and then see where we go next.

But I will have a look around for the Bajogs.

EG.

DM
# Posted: 8 Apr 2013 17:08
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In my personal experience, the Stetzer filters have done little to nothing. I tried them first, because they were cheaper than most RF shielding. With the filters being my only and first intervention, I had no reduction in symptoms (I did not have any measuring devices yet, so I could not determine any other type of reduction at the time.) Eric, what device would you recommend using to measure low and middle frequencies? Right now, all I've got are RF measuring devices. Also Charles or Eric, let me know what you think of the Bajog filters if you have experience with them. Thanks for all of the info,

DM

ericgeneric
Member
# Posted: 10 Apr 2013 23:54
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Hello DM,

I'm afraid I don't have a scooby about measuring frequencies; I am (unfortunately) so sensitive that I simply go on that alone. I can feel where it's strong, where it's not so strong, and feel the difference between types of radiation. I have no technical understanding of it at all, and years of expsoure to, and discussion of, the subject sadly hasn't changed that. My brain simply cannot get its head around the science, and never could!

EG.

Shiwa
Member
# Posted: 19 Jun 2013 11:39
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Charles. Please what is 'dirty air'. Thanks.

I gave up trying to get anything meaningful using Stetzer filters, could never get it to stay anything near 25 GS units; also no difference to my health.

Dirk
Member
# Posted: 15 Nov 2013 10:14
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It seems to me that the dirty electricity issue is still rather vague, in terms of what is actually being emitted into the room. We talking about transient peaks in the electricity supply, so does this mean that we have transient peaks in the electric field generated by the household power supply? If this is the case, has anyone measured this effect at distances of more than 20-30 cm from a power cable? One thing is to measure and block the transients on the household power supply, but what is really transmited into our living space? I'm really not clear on this, what is the suposed effect of dirty electricity, how does it affect me when I'm on my sofa or my bed, which I have already moved to areas where the 50 Hz electric field is effectivly zero? I understand that vendors of filters and such are keen to expose the problem, but what is actually affecting my living space (not just my cables)? How do I measure the effect of dirty electricity in my living space (and not just on my cables)? I have enough things to worry about, but I'm not sure if I should add dirty electricity to the list, or not!

Henrik
Admin
# Posted: 15 Nov 2013 11:12
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Hi Dirk,

Dirty electricity is high-frequency transients in the kHz range so they can propagate like radio signals. Sources are typically switch-mode power supplies in consumer electronics. Switch-mode works by "chopping" the mains power with a high-frequency electronic switch. This creates transients that can bleed back into the house wiring and propagate.
I don't have a rule of thumb regarding the range of dirty electricity. As you note, there are special filters for filtering out the transients and they are simply low-pass filters that cut out the high frequencies. What I have found is that you can also use so-called ferrite rings (also called ferrite core, bead etc.) by attaching them to the power cable where it goes into the unit. Ferrite rings are cheap, available in most electronics shops and simply snap onto the cable.
You often see them on power supplies for laptops but near the low-voltage plug that goes into the computer. They should also be on the mains cable as well to suppress bleed-back noise from the switch-mode inside.

But how to detect? You can use an old AM radio - preferably one with many frequency bands - and try standing close to an electronics unit that has a switch mode power supply (they are lightweight where the power cable goes into the unit - older units had a heavier coil transformer) and tune the radio until you pick up a significant noise and that noise diminishes when you move away from the unit.

Reported effects on health from dirty electricity are onset and worsening of diabetes (called type-3 diabetes), worsening of multiple sclerosis and also cancer. Look up the work of Dr. Sam Milham and Prof. Magda Havas for scientific information.

sevenx
Member
# Posted: 16 Nov 2013 11:53
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Hi Charles,

I have looked on your page with screenshots.

1. The highest peak is about 5mV at 8Mhz. Is not too much, i think.
2. and 4. we talk about microV, very very weak signal.
5. Here we have >10mV, mabe here we can consider to be a problem.

On the other hand measurements were done with USB cable (to use MCS) but using USB cable value are signifiant greater than without it.
Aaronia will do a great job if we'll provide a fiber optic conecction.

Do you have another opinion?

Dirk
Member
# Posted: 19 Nov 2013 07:59
Reply 


Hi Henrik,

Thanks for your reply, it's helped me to focus in on the issue. I offer the following observations. If radiowaves generated by dirty electricity can be picked up by an AM radio, they can be measured by a meter such as a Spectran 5035 or Gigahertz whilst sitting on my sofa, and my exposure can be measured in terms of electric field intensity (volts per meter). I cannot detect anything, and the fact that I see no such measurements *anywhere* tells me that nobody else has managed to measure the intensity of these radiowaves above the noise level of these measerument instruments either. AM radio sets can pick up very weak signals; I feel that if I am to worry about dirty electricity, I should also worry about radio broadcasts from Moscow (thousands of miles away). It appears to me that Mr Stetzer is laughing all the way to the bank...!!

sevenx
Member
# Posted: 2 Dec 2013 09:54
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Charles,
You don't say anything ?

charles
Member
# Posted: 2 Dec 2013 12:33
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As I have mentioned before, I have 15 yeras experience with electrosensitive people.

If the spectrumanalyser shows values in the range of microVolts, in my opinion, it is tolerable.
However, when the values are in the milliVolt range, it is hazardous for electrosensitives.

Stetzer filters only work up to 150kHz. The Stetzer meter also.
The Bajoig filters go to 30MHz.

Very common I find large peaks at around 3.5MHz and higher.

As Detectors I have the Stetzermeter, and an Entech, which goes up to 800kHz, and has a speaker so you can hear waht is in the mains.
Now www.Priggen.com has a new detector, the Line EMI meter.
That one goes from 10kHz up to 10MHz, and also has a speaker, and it shows the values in millivolt.

sevenx
Member
# Posted: 2 Dec 2013 16:34
Reply 


Thanks Charles,

I give you my respect for your experience and i'm not able to disagree with you, but i have some doubt.

If you'll use the Spectran without USB cable, you are getting same values?
To detect these weak signals do you use Spectran with some preamplifier options?

sevenx
Member
# Posted: 19 Feb 2014 09:12 - Edited by: sevenx
Reply 


Hi Charles,

I looked on www.hetbitje.nl/bitjeE2809_2n.pdf and i see that , for frequency below 15-KHz Stetzer filter seems to be better than Bajog.
Did you tried tu use both of them at same time? Stetzer to do a great job under 150KHz and Bajog for the highest frequency range ?
Thanks

Michael de la Vega
Member
# Posted: 25 Sep 2015 01:05
Reply 


This entire thing EMF and such related stuf is a nightmare so I just made art.

https://molerat8.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/molerat-wall-of-death.jpg

Anonymous
# Posted: 25 Sep 2015 01:28
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I have made numerous weird products that I believe may shield the EMF away. I am not sure where the energy goes. In the wal electrical receptor I made a plug in lead based coated in plastic does the EMF dissipate somewhere else on the property? If so where is it safe?

Newbie
# Posted: 21 Jan 2016 05:46
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Hello everyone, I am glad I found this forum, as I had trouble finding any forums where I can read about people's experiences with dirty electricity (which I thought was strange).

I just bought Stetzer filters, but am having a few issues and interesting experiences. Customer service and tech support are not helpful.

Having read this forum, I wanted to ask: what can happen if there is some wiring problems, and I install the filters? I'm a bit nervous about this.

Also, someone mentioned grounded/ungrounded outlets. Is this something I should be concerned about?

thanks!

Henrik
Admin
# Posted: 21 Jan 2016 08:37
Reply 


Newbie,

Hi there. Which country are you in? (re wiring).

Kay Clark
# Posted: 17 Feb 2016 21:09
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I would suggest first off you make sure you want/need Stetzer filters. Last year, 2015, after watching and reading about filters for over a year I purchased the starter package of Stetzer filters. I don't recall reading anything about the filters wouldn't work for all dirty electricity. I purchased the Stetzer filters 2015-06-04 and from then until I returned the filters 2015-08-04 I began having terrible burning on my hands and my forearms. I also began getting bright pink bumps on my hands and forearms and what looked like a rash on the backs of my hands. On looking closer at my hands you could see whatever it was was under the skin like little broken capillaries or blood vessels. The bumps didn't hurt but the burning was incessant and painful. Later I came across http://www.emfanalysis.com/, Jeromy Johnson and he gave me a lot of good useful information. The main one was about filters.

ABC123
Member
# Posted: 28 Jan 2018 03:01
Reply 



Look at the picture of this brick wall. The person living in this house had moved all furniture to the back of the house, because there a some mobile phone masts at the flats opposite her house.
I measured a lot of *dirty air* in the corner and avised to place an antenna against the wall outside. Since then, the furniture has been moved again to the front of the house, and even the cat is happy at the front of the house.
There was nothing changed to the mobile phone transmitters. Just the middle frequency components in the beams were isolated.


What do you mean you placed an antenna on the wall outside? How did this stop the waves from entering her house?

charles
Member
# Posted: 7 Feb 2018 10:24
Reply 


Simple.
The long grounded antenna picked the middle frequencies from the senders beam and guided them into the ground outside the house.
Inside the house, these frequencies were not present anymore.
The habitants could move their furniture again to the fron of the house, despite the normal radiation.
Even longer working in the garden was now possible.

fely
# Posted: 7 Jul 2018 00:46
Reply 


If the house has grounded power sockets, would that work as a grounded antenna for those frequencies? Is the standard resistance of the ground pin/rod into the soil sufficient?

Could we just put more grounding wires through rooms or do we have to dig a deeper ground rod/pin.

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